From joea at j4computers.com  Wed Apr  1 02:48:53 2009
From: joea at j4computers.com (joea at j4computers.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:48:53 -0400
Subject: NW bash shell
In-Reply-To: <49D0E2EB020000850005F970@FS-LIN-OES>
References: <49D0E2EB020000850005F970@FS-LIN-OES>
Message-ID: <49D28FC5020000850005F97E@FS-LIN-OES>

So, one discovers that bash would not run even the simplest shell commands.  One ponders this and Mr Edison's incandescent device brightens.   The script was named "blah.ncf".  changed this to "blah.sh" and the commands executed.  

Still cannot combine dsbk with bash commands, (hope springs eternal) so I will resort to running dsbk under NW console and rename the resultant files with "date" under bash.

joe a.

>>> On 3/30/2009 at 3:19 PM, "joea at j4computers.com" <joea at j4computers.com> wrote:
> working on a dsbackup scheme using dsbk. 
> 
> tring to use "dsbk backup -f `date --iso-8601`.bak l- `date --iso-8601`.log -t -w -b" 
> to timestamp file names.  Works fine in linux.
> 
> Tried it in NetWare 6.5 (eDir 8.7.3.10). Does not seem to work. One hassle 
> is the date thingie does not seem to work in file names, as in linux. 
> 
> Bigger problem is that dsbk does not seem to like being called from the bash 
> shell. While it invokes, it seems unhappy with the file location. Apparently. 
> Says it cannot find log file. No amount of fussing around with variation of 
> path "/" vs "\", etc. seem to make it happy. 
> 
> Am I just wasting time trying to get this to work in NetWare?
> 
> joe a.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 




From evansj21 at msu.edu  Wed Apr  1 15:46:52 2009
From: evansj21 at msu.edu (John Evans)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:46:52 -0400
Subject: NW bash shell
In-Reply-To: <167f4090903301321p7358cd60i95872d94a1f2e08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D0E2EB020000850005F970@FS-LIN-OES>
	<68b791330903301315q7df12d01kf28cfee492f08a80@mail.gmail.com>
	<167f4090903301321p7358cd60i95872d94a1f2e08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D3461B.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>

Some people take the "bash" part of the subject to heart.


>>> Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> 3/30/2009 4:21 PM >>>
Peter your Novell disgruntlement is showing.  ;-)

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Peter Van Lone <petervl at gmail.com> wrote:

> My guess is that, like much of anything else, you are wasting your
> time trying to accomplish really anything *sort of* new in Netware.
>
> ...
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 


From HPfeil at uca.edu  Wed Apr  1 16:18:23 2009
From: HPfeil at uca.edu (Hans Pfeil)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:18:23 -0500
Subject: Which File System
Message-ID: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>

Hey all,

Have a SLES10.2 XEN Host server.  Going to Paravirtualize some servers.Which file system should I use on the host server, reiser, ext2, orext3?  What's everybody else using??

Thanks
-Hans



From tim at nds8.co.uk  Wed Apr  1 16:26:36 2009
From: tim at nds8.co.uk (Tim Heywood)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:26:36 +0100
Subject: Which File System
In-Reply-To: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>

Or indeed OCFS2; Especially when you have shared storage and the future
possibility of creating a shared Virtualisation deployment.

Elsewise I would use EXT2 as I don't want a second transactional file
system in the mix.

T


-- 
 
Tim Heywood
NDS8
Novell Platinum Solution Provider
 
Office:  +44 (0) 131 538 8202
Mobile:  +44 (0) 7974 134264








>>> On 01 April, 2009 at 16:18, "Hans Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> wrote: 
> Hey all,
> 
> Have a SLES10.2 XEN Host server.  Going to Paravirtualize some
servers.Which 
> file system should I use on the host server, reiser, ext2, orext3? 
What's 
> everybody else using??
> 
> Thanks
> -Hans
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
> 
> ***Scanned by M+ Guardian***


The information contained in this email is intended for the person to 
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contents to anyone else, or take any action based upon it, if it is 
not addressed to you personally. If the message is received by anyone
other 
than the addressee, please notify the sender and delete the message. 

NDS8 does not accept responsibility for changes made to this 
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From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Wed Apr  1 17:22:13 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Joe Doupnik)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 17:22:13 +0100
Subject: Which File System
In-Reply-To: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49D394B5.6020206@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Hans Pfeil wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> Have a SLES10.2 XEN Host server.  Going to Paravirtualize some servers.Which file system should I use on the host server, reiser, ext2, orext3?  What's everybody else using??
> 
> Thanks
> -Hans
----------
	It will depend upon what you are doing.
	XFS is generally excellent. The exceptions are rapid fire email such as GW does poorly here
and if doing Novell clustering.
	EXT2/3 are best left for desktops, fsck time will astound you
	Reiser should be moved away from, it is on life support, breaks hard
	If you are doing Linux clustering then, as Tim says, look at OCFS2 which supports simultaneous
access by multiple servers (though the techniques are primative). It is similar to EXT3 though.
	Be wary of all "file system with a file" schemes because journaling will not be done as it ought.
The alternative is to give the guest direct access to the file store.
	Demanding special cases require you to dig into the f/s details and run solid tests before
turning on production mode.
	Joe D.

From MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us  Wed Apr  1 18:06:33 2009
From: MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us (Michael Glenn)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:06:33 -0400
Subject: Which File System
In-Reply-To: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49D366D8.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>

I'm not terribly familiar with Xen, but if it's as fond of very large files as VMware is, I would suggest XFS. 


>>> "Hans Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> 04/01/2009 11:18 >>>
Hey all,

Have a SLES10.2 XEN Host server.  Going to Paravirtualize some servers.Which file system should I use on the host server, reiser, ext2, orext3?  What's everybody else using??

Thanks
-Hans



From alandpearson at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 19:08:16 2009
From: alandpearson at yahoo.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 19:08:16 +0100
Subject: Which File System
In-Reply-To: <49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
Message-ID: <E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>

Have to disagree here.

If you are going to create your virtuals on LVM (which indeed you  
should in the first instance, it's a lot more flexible) then each  
machine gets it's own slice of the disk.
You should then look at the workload of each virtual server and choose  
an appropriate filesystem.

If these are going to be OES servers or SLES servers you should use  
reiserfs or ext3 on the / partition as all kernels will have inbuilt  
support for this and it will make your life easier.

We've got around 50 virtual linux boxes used for general purpose  
compiling and running apps (all RHEL4 guests) and use the following  
setup :

Physical :
6 x HW Raid disks, in one Volume Group VG00
Vg00 divided into LVM slices for each virtual
Dom0 = RHEL5
/ = ext3
swap

Virtuals
3 x LVM slices of VG00 (/, swap, /build)
/ = ext3
swap = swap
/build = ext2 with noatime option to make builds faster (all data in / 
build is transient anyway so don't need overhead of journals)


This has been working really well for 3 years now (we started on  
RHEL4) and is very reliable, and LVM gives us lots of flexibility to  
grow the systems and manage the storage.


If shared storage is your goal (ie all virtuals mount the same  
filesystem  at the same time) then a clustered filesystem is your  
friend (OCFS2), but the admin overhead of this is huge, and it can be  
a pain to setup & manage.


Just my 2p worth :)


---
AlanP


On 1 Apr 2009, at 16:26, Tim Heywood wrote:

> Or indeed OCFS2; Especially when you have shared storage and the  
> future
> possibility of creating a shared Virtualisation deployment.
>
> Elsewise I would use EXT2 as I don't want a second transactional file
> system in the mix.
>
> T
>
>
> -- 
>
> Tim Heywood
> NDS8
> Novell Platinum Solution Provider
>
> Office:  +44 (0) 131 538 8202
> Mobile:  +44 (0) 7974 134264
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>> On 01 April, 2009 at 16:18, "Hans Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Have a SLES10.2 XEN Host server.  Going to Paravirtualize some
> servers.Which
>> file system should I use on the host server, reiser, ext2, orext3?
> What's
>> everybody else using??
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Hans
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>>
>> ***Scanned by M+ Guardian***
>
>
> The information contained in this email is intended for the person to
> whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. You should not copy, retain, forward or disclose its
> contents to anyone else, or take any action based upon it, if it is
> not addressed to you personally. If the message is received by anyone
> other
> than the addressee, please notify the sender and delete the message.
>
> NDS8 does not accept responsibility for changes made to this
> message after it was sent. Whilst all reasonable care has been taken  
> to
> avoid the transmission of viruses, it is the responsibility of the
> recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of
> this message and any attachments will not adversely affect its systems
> or data.
> _______________________________________________
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> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell



From Setienne at enesco.com  Tue Apr  7 15:36:51 2009
From: Setienne at enesco.com (Scott Etienne)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:36:51 -0500
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control
In-Reply-To: <E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>

We are in the process of migrating from our VPN Concentrator to an ASA, and I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to limit user access (by group membership or some attribute?). 
 
I have searched the doc and do not find a way to use an NDS group membership for this. I know In AD, there is an "Allow Dialin" attribute that Cisco uses to determine permission, and I have read about Cisco's ldap attribute-map. I am hoping there is some way to use an existing NDS attribute to determine VPN permission.
 
My first choice would be by Group membership, because it is so easy to add users to a group, my second choice would be to set an attribute value on a user, my last choice is to create an OU and create Aliases for every allowed user.

How can I best limit user-VPN access with an ASA and NDS?
 
Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 

 

From rivars at mctweb.net  Tue Apr  7 17:00:02 2009
From: rivars at mctweb.net (Rick Ivars)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:00:02 -0500
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control
In-Reply-To: <49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
Message-ID: <49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>

did you get smart net with the asa?  If so call cisco and open a ticket and have cisco do the work for you.
 
Rick Ivars
Senior Network Engineer
Master CNE, MCP, GCE, RCE, Project+
Datamax/Micro
rivars at mctweb.net
http://www.mctweb.net
501-603-3000 

>>> "Scott Etienne" <Setienne at enesco.com> 4/7/2009 9:36 AM >>>
We are in the process of migrating from our VPN Concentrator to an ASA, and I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to limit user access (by group membership or some attribute?). 

I have searched the doc and do not find a way to use an NDS group membership for this. I know In AD, there is an "Allow Dialin" attribute that Cisco uses to determine permission, and I have read about Cisco's ldap attribute-map. I am hoping there is some way to use an existing NDS attribute to determine VPN permission.

My first choice would be by Group membership, because it is so easy to add users to a group, my second choice would be to set an attribute value on a user, my last choice is to create an OU and create Aliases for every allowed user.

How can I best limit user-VPN access with an ASA and NDS?

Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

 A*  Important: Datamax/Micro considers the information contained in this message ("Confidential Information"). Unless Datamax-Micro has given prior written authorization, do not forward, copy, or otherwise replicate or disseminate verbally, electronically, or in hardcopy any Confidential Information, except to those individuals within your organization who have a legitimate business need to know, and who have agreed in writing, to keep it confidential.   

From MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us  Tue Apr  7 20:12:48 2009
From: MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us (Michael Glenn)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 15:12:48 -0400
Subject: Needed: IT User Policy examples
In-Reply-To: <49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
	<49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>
Message-ID: <49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>

Hallelujah! 

We've FINALLY managed to get the Big Boss to agree to an IT user policy! 

Now, all we have to do is write it. 
:}

We're looking for some examples that would be suitable for a small-to-medium government agency. If anyone can toss us a few ideas that would help us get going, We'd really appreciate it. 

Thanks! 



From pjc9001 at nyp.org  Tue Apr  7 20:22:25 2009
From: pjc9001 at nyp.org (Peter J. Cox)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 15:22:25 -0400
Subject: Needed: IT User Policy examples
In-Reply-To: <49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
	<49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>
	<49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
Message-ID: <21814_1239132146_0KHQ001MSWHDNZD0_49DBA7F1.9030000@nyp.org>

Michael,
    What kind of focus are you looking for? IT User password policy, 
Acceptable Use policy, User responsibility policy, etc. That might help 
the recommendations. Congratulations.

If there are any questions or problems
please contact me.
_______________________
Peter J. Cox
Network Manager, IT
NY Methodist Hospital
718-780-3250 Office
718-780-5993 HelpDesk




Michael Glenn wrote:
> Hallelujah! 
>
> We've FINALLY managed to get the Big Boss to agree to an IT user policy! 
>
> Now, all we have to do is write it. 
> :}
>
> We're looking for some examples that would be suitable for a small-to-medium government agency. If anyone can toss us a few ideas that would help us get going, We'd really appreciate it. 
>
> Thanks! 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>
>   


--------------------

This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information that is confidential or privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above, and delete and destroy all copies of this message.  Thank you.



From MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us  Tue Apr  7 21:16:38 2009
From: MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us (Michael Glenn)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:16:38 -0400
Subject: Needed: IT User Policy examples
In-Reply-To: <21814_1239132146_0KHQ001MSWHDNZD0_49DBA7F1.9030000@nyp.org>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
	<49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>
	<49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<21814_1239132146_0KHQ001MSWHDNZD0_49DBA7F1.9030000@nyp.org>
Message-ID: <49DB7C66.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>

Good questions. We believe we're looking for Acceptable Use (DMCA, unauthorized software, etc) and User Responsibilities (Email account maintenance, workstation security, etc.). 

Thanks.


>>> "Peter J. Cox" <pjc9001 at nyp.org> 04/07/2009 15:22 >>>
Michael,
    What kind of focus are you looking for? IT User password policy, 
Acceptable Use policy, User responsibility policy, etc. That might help 
the recommendations. Congratulations.



From kfrank at baltimorecountymd.gov  Tue Apr  7 21:34:43 2009
From: kfrank at baltimorecountymd.gov (Ken Frank)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:34:43 -0400
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control
In-Reply-To: <49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
Message-ID: <49DB809C.873F.000E.0@baltimorecountymd.gov>

If LDAP settings will allow you to add an objectClass to pull from, you could use "groupOfNames" class to create a "access" group in NDS and add users.  My experience is Cisco says it will work with LDAP and NDS, but I have yet to see it work.
 
Ken Frank
Baltimore County Government

>>> "Scott Etienne" <Setienne at enesco.com> 4/7/2009 10:36 AM >>>
We are in the process of migrating from our VPN Concentrator to an ASA, and I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to limit user access (by group membership or some attribute?). 

I have searched the doc and do not find a way to use an NDS group membership for this. I know In AD, there is an "Allow Dialin" attribute that Cisco uses to determine permission, and I have read about Cisco's ldap attribute-map. I am hoping there is some way to use an existing NDS attribute to determine VPN permission.

My first choice would be by Group membership, because it is so easy to add users to a group, my second choice would be to set an attribute value on a user, my last choice is to create an OU and create Aliases for every allowed user.

How can I best limit user-VPN access with an ASA and NDS?

Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

This electronic mail transmission contains information belonging to the sender which is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If you are not the named and intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action based on the contents of this electronic mail transmission is not authorized, but rather, is strictly prohibited.  If you received this electronic mail transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender.

From britton at bellsouth.net  Wed Apr  8 00:20:02 2009
From: britton at bellsouth.net (Connie Britton)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control
Message-ID: <593684.65761.qm@web180101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


I've been told that Cisco's official position is that they don't support NDS.  We've been using Cisco's Secure ACS for some time but will be abandoning the solution because NDS  support has been removed.


On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:00 PM, "Rick Ivars" <rivars at mctweb.net> wrote:

did you get smart net with the asa?  If so call cisco and open a ticket and have cisco do the work for you.

Rick Ivars
Senior Network Engineer
Master CNE, MCP, GCE, RCE, Project+
Datamax/Micro
rivars at mctweb.net
http://www.mctweb.net
501-603-3000 

"Scott Etienne" <Setienne at enesco.com> 4/7/2009 9:36 AM >>>
We are in the process of migrating from our VPN Concentrator to an ASA, and I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to limit user access (by group membership or some attribute?). 

I have searched the doc and do not find a way to use an NDS group membership for this. I know In AD, there is an "Allow Dialin" attribute that Cisco uses to determine permission, and I have read about Cisco's ldap attribute-map. I am hoping there is some way to use an existing NDS attribute to determine VPN permission.

My first choice would be by Group membership, because it is so easy to add users to a group, my second choice would be to set an attribute value on a user, my last choice is to create an OU and create Aliases for every allowed user.

How can I best limit user-VPN access with an ASA and NDS?

Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

A*  Important: Datamax/Micro considers the information contained in this message ("Confidential Information"). Unless Datamax-Micro has given prior written authorization, do not forward, copy, or otherwise replicate or disseminate verbally, electronically, or in hardcopy any Confidential Information, except to those individuals within your organization who have a legitimate business need to know, and who have agreed in writing, to keep it confidential.   
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From jbrixie at ecc.net  Wed Apr  8 01:17:10 2009
From: jbrixie at ecc.net (John Brixie)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:17:10 -0700
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control
In-Reply-To: <mailman.716.1239136524.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.716.1239136524.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49DB8A96.340C.00CF.0@ecc.net>

Scott,
 
We've got some ASAs over here configured that way.
 
On the ASAs, we have several access lists defined, one list for each user group that can potentially log in.  When clients connect to the ASA, authentication hits one of two RADIUS servers (FreeRADIUS) that perform LDAP queries against our eDirectory tree.  It's RADIUS that checks group membership, and depending on which group a user belongs to returns an ACL name in the reply to the ASA.  Assuming the user has access, the ACL name returned then gets applied to the session.
 
I'll admit it's been some time since this was set up, and some of the finer points of the setup are a bit blurred.  The files I remember spending the most time in were on the RADIUS server - /etc/raddb/users, specifically as it related to the order in which things are tested; in /etc/raddb/radiusd.conf, specifically getting the ldap section set up properly.  Luckily we had most of the FreeRADIUS stuff figured out already when we set up RADIUS authentication for our Cisco infrastructure devices.
 
Of course, this all assumes that you don't mind dealing with FreeRADIUS.  :-)
 
Hope this helps.
 
====================================
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:36:51 -0500
From: "Scott Etienne" <Setienne at enesco.com>
To: "Novell LAN Interest Group" <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control

We are in the process of migrating from our VPN Concentrator to an ASA, and I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to limit user access (by group membership or some attribute?). 

I have searched the doc and do not find a way to use an NDS group membership for this. I know In AD, there is an "Allow Dialin" attribute that Cisco uses to determine permission, and I have read about Cisco's ldap attribute-map. I am hoping there is some way to use an existing NDS attribute to determine VPN permission.

My first choice would be by Group membership, because it is so easy to add users to a group, my second choice would be to set an attribute value on a user, my last choice is to create an OU and create Aliases for every allowed user.

How can I best limit user-VPN access with an ASA and NDS?

Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 
====================================
 
 
John Brixie
IT Manager
ECC
Office: (650) 347-1555 x345
jbrixie at ecc.net 

From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Wed Apr  8 01:45:57 2009
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 20:45:57 -0400
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control
Message-ID: <49DBBB850200007500009498@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

One option we're looking at is to set up DSFW (Domain Services for Windows) in OES2SP2 to make the device use eDir via an AD emulation. I haven't had a chance to test against Cisco, but other testing looks good so far.
-jt




James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
678-697-9420
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
http://www.eastcobbgroup.com


>>> "John Brixie" <jbrixie at ecc.net> 04/07/09 20:18 PM >>>
Scott,
 
We've got some ASAs over here configured that way.
 
On the ASAs, we have several access lists defined, one list for each user group that can potentially log in.  When clients connect to the ASA, authentication hits one of two RADIUS servers (FreeRADIUS) that perform LDAP queries against our eDirectory tree.  It's RADIUS that checks group membership, and depending on which group a user belongs to returns an ACL name in the reply to the ASA.  Assuming the user has access, the ACL name returned then gets applied to the session.
 
I'll admit it's been some time since this was set up, and some of the finer points of the setup are a bit blurred.  The files I remember spending the most time in were on the RADIUS server - /etc/raddb/users, specifically as it related to the order in which things are tested; in /etc/raddb/radiusd.conf, specifically getting the ldap section set up properly.  Luckily we had most of the FreeRADIUS stuff figured out already when we set up RADIUS authentication for our Cisco infrastructure devices.
 
Of course, this all assumes that you don't mind dealing with FreeRADIUS.  :-)
 
Hope this helps.
 
====================================
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:36:51 -0500
From: "Scott Etienne" <Setienne at enesco.com>
To: "Novell LAN Interest Group" <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control

We are in the process of migrating from our VPN Concentrator to an ASA, and I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to limit user access (by group membership or some attribute?). 

I have searched the doc and do not find a way to use an NDS group membership for this. I know In AD, there is an "Allow Dialin" attribute that Cisco uses to determine permission, and I have read about Cisco's ldap attribute-map. I am hoping there is some way to use an existing NDS attribute to determine VPN permission.

My first choice would be by Group membership, because it is so easy to add users to a group, my second choice would be to set an attribute value on a user, my last choice is to create an OU and create Aliases for every allowed user.

How can I best limit user-VPN access with an ASA and NDS?

Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 
====================================
 
 
John Brixie
IT Manager
ECC
Office: (650) 347-1555 x345
jbrixie at ecc.net 
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From mbrady at ingenuityieq.com  Wed Apr  8 13:34:21 2009
From: mbrady at ingenuityieq.com (Mike Brady)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:34:21 -0400
Subject: Needed: IT User Policy examples
In-Reply-To: <49DB7C66.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
	<49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>
	<49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<21814_1239132146_0KHQ001MSWHDNZD0_49DBA7F1.9030000@nyp.org>
	<49DB7C66.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
Message-ID: <49DC618D0200002D00012B8A@mail.ingenuityieq.com>

We recently went through and rewrote our end user technology policy here at the small business I work at.  One piece of advice I can give is to first determine what it is the organization is actually willing to do in the discipline area before you come up with a bunch of policies.  If there is no enforcement, you may as well have a policy that reads : "It's the organizations equipment and resources.  Don't use it like you're at home.  Don't look at porn. Don't install ANYTHING.  You break it, you buy it".  :-)  If you'd like a look at our policy, e-mail me off-list. 

>>> On 4/7/2009 at 4:16 PM, in message <49DB7C66.33FD.002C.1 at cco.state.oh.us>, "Michael Glenn" <MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us> wrote:

Good questions. We believe we're looking for Acceptable Use (DMCA, unauthorized software, etc) and User Responsibilities (Email account maintenance, workstation security, etc.). 

Thanks.


>>> "Peter J. Cox" <pjc9001 at nyp.org> 04/07/2009 15:22 >>>
Michael,
    What kind of focus are you looking for? IT User password policy, 
Acceptable Use policy, User responsibility policy, etc. That might help 
the recommendations. Congratulations.


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us  Wed Apr  8 15:34:08 2009
From: MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us (Michael Glenn)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 10:34:08 -0400
Subject: SLED-11 versus LUM
In-Reply-To: <49DC618D0200002D00012B8A@mail.ingenuityieq.com>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>
	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>
	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>
	<49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>
	<49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<21814_1239132146_0KHQ001MSWHDNZD0_49DBA7F1.9030000@nyp.org>
	<49DB7C66.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<49DC618D0200002D00012B8A@mail.ingenuityieq.com>
Message-ID: <49DC7DA0.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>

Hey; it's me again.

Is anyone having problems with getting LUM to work on SLED-11? It seemed to be working for us at first, but now it appears that Gnome bombs-out with a "NULL pam handle passed" in the messages log when we attempt to log in using a LUM account that hasn't logged into that particular machine before. In other words, if I create a local test account, log in to it via Gnome and back out, it works just fine and will continue to work when I bring up LUM and log in a LUM account using the same UID. But, if I try to use LUM to log in using an account that wasn't on the machine previously, Gnome freaks out. LUM works just fine on our OES2 boxes, and id queries on the SLED-11 units look okay. In fact, one can login via the CLI using the LUM accounts just fine. Only Gnome is giving us a hard time. 

As has been the norm these past several years, Novell Technical Support has been less than helpful to date. Perhaps someone here can give me a clue? 

Thanks. 



From Setienne at enesco.com  Wed Apr  8 21:21:20 2009
From: Setienne at enesco.com (Scott Etienne)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:21:20 -0500
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control
In-Reply-To: <49DB8A96.340C.00CF.0@ecc.net>
References: <mailman.716.1239136524.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49DB8A96.340C.00CF.0@ecc.net>
Message-ID: <49DCC0EF.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>

John and all,
 
You were closest to the bulls-eye here. I found an example of where they created an attribute map to authenticate against an AD group, and adapted the instructions to NDS. When you run the ASA in debug mode (debug ldap 255), it shows that the ldap query returns everything about the requested user including all group memberships. It was easy then to change the variables to match the NDS membership, instead of using memberOf, you just use groupMembership, and map it to IETF-Radius. I got stuck in a couple of places, one was where the example Cisco Document ID: 98634 describes the attribute mapping "map-value memberOf CN=Contractors,CN=Users,DC=ftwsecurity,DC=cisco,DC=com ExamplePolicy2," where ExamplePolicy2 is never described, but is your group policy definition, and I was stuck when I tried to use SASL authentication as recommended by some of the documentation.
 
Another caveat is the local address pool should be assigned under the group-policy rather than under the tunnel-group. You have to have a noaccess group-policy defined as well, and this has to be your default group policy in your tunnel group.
 
group-policy noaccess attributes
 vpn-simultaneous-logins 1
 address-pools none
group-policy enesco attributes
 dns-server value x.x.x.x x.x.x.x
 vpn-tunnel-protocol IPSec
 split-tunnel-policy tunnelspecified
 split-tunnel-network-list value split-tunnel
 default-domain value x.x.com
 split-dns value x.com x.x.com x.x.net
 address-pools value VPNClients
tunnel-group enesco type remote-access
tunnel-group enesco general-attributes
 authentication-server-group enescoserverx
 default-group-policy noaccess
And finally, Cisco support helped me with the two places where I was stuck above. Smartnet is a great value.
 
 
Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 

 

>>> On 4/7/2009 at 7:17 PM, in message <49DB8A96.340C.00CF.0 at ecc.net>, "John Brixie" <jbrixie at ecc.net> wrote:
Scott,

We've got some ASAs over here configured that way.

On the ASAs, we have several access lists defined, one list for each user group that can potentially log in.  When clients connect to the ASA, authentication hits one of two RADIUS servers (FreeRADIUS) that perform LDAP queries against our eDirectory tree.  It's RADIUS that checks group membership, and depending on which group a user belongs to returns an ACL name in the reply to the ASA.  Assuming the user has access, the ACL name returned then gets applied to the session.

I'll admit it's been some time since this was set up, and some of the finer points of the setup are a bit blurred.  The files I remember spending the most time in were on the RADIUS server - /etc/raddb/users, specifically as it related to the order in which things are tested; in /etc/raddb/radiusd.conf, specifically getting the ldap section set up properly.  Luckily we had most of the FreeRADIUS stuff figured out already when we set up RADIUS authentication for our Cisco infrastructure devices.

Of course, this all assumes that you don't mind dealing with FreeRADIUS.  :-)

Hope this helps.

====================================
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:36:51 -0500
From: "Scott Etienne" <Setienne at enesco.com>
To: "Novell LAN Interest Group" <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Cisco VPN Access Control

We are in the process of migrating from our VPN Concentrator to an ASA, and I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to limit user access (by group membership or some attribute?). 

I have searched the doc and do not find a way to use an NDS group membership for this. I know In AD, there is an "Allow Dialin" attribute that Cisco uses to determine permission, and I have read about Cisco's ldap attribute-map. I am hoping there is some way to use an existing NDS attribute to determine VPN permission.

My first choice would be by Group membership, because it is so easy to add users to a group, my second choice would be to set an attribute value on a user, my last choice is to create an OU and create Aliases for every allowed user.

How can I best limit user-VPN access with an ASA and NDS?

Thank you,

Scott Etienne
Network Engineer
Enesco, LLC
setienne at enesco.com 
====================================


John Brixie
IT Manager
ECC
Office: (650) 347-1555 x345
jbrixie at ecc.net 
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au  Thu Apr  9 03:44:59 2009
From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:44:59 +0800
Subject: Installing Tshark
Message-ID: <B0B6BBCE8E2140D3A0CA32BD6EAD6BCE@jonsdesk>

I would like to install tshark on a SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, yet I
cannot find a rpm for it.  Does anyone know where and how I can do this?

Thanks



From Robrinsky at roillc.com  Thu Apr  9 04:12:45 2009
From: Robrinsky at roillc.com (Robert Obrinsky)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:12:45 -0700
Subject: Installing Tshark
In-Reply-To: <B0B6BBCE8E2140D3A0CA32BD6EAD6BCE@jonsdesk>
References: <B0B6BBCE8E2140D3A0CA32BD6EAD6BCE@jonsdesk>
Message-ID: <49DD053D.9F9C.006D.0@roillc.com>

Jon,
 
There should be a full installation of Wireshark available on SLES which includes Tshark. Earlier versions of SLES included Ethereal which was the predecessor of Wireshark.
 
There is some Wireshark .rpm availability on the http://www.opensuse.org site. I have not tried to install any of them on SLES but I have used them on earlier versions of OpenSuse that only had included Ethereal.
 
Robert W. Obrinsky
President
Robert Obrinsky Industries, LLC
1908 SE 45th Avenue
Portland, OR 97215
503.719.4387 (Office)
203.273.7012 (Mobile)


>>> "Jon Miller" <jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au> 4/8/2009 7:44 PM >>>
I would like to install tshark on a SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, yet I
cannot find a rpm for it.  Does anyone know where and how I can do this?

Thanks


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From HPfeil at uca.edu  Thu Apr  9 15:13:43 2009
From: HPfeil at uca.edu (Hans Pfeil)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:13:43 -0500
Subject: Guest server iscsi to san
Message-ID: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>

Hey all,

Running a SLES10SP2 fully patched XEN Host server running XFS for the file system.  I install an OES2SP1 guest server creating the following partitions:  /, swap, /local.   I can successfully connect the oes2sp1 guest server to our SAN via ISCSI.  I partition that san space with Partitioner.   I partition that space as a primary partition, ext3, and mount it as /local/data.  All works well.  Here is my problem:  the guest server will NOT reboot.  It hangs on shutting down with "unmounting file systems" staring back at me.   I have perfomed some tests.  With the ISCSI connection still connected, un-mount /local/data, then reboot the guest server it works fine.  So I must be messing something up with the creation of that partition.  I'm not quite getting it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Hans



From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Thu Apr  9 15:16:56 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Joe Doupnik)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 15:16:56 +0100
Subject: Guest server iscsi to san
In-Reply-To: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Hans Pfeil wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> Running a SLES10SP2 fully patched XEN Host server running XFS for the file system.  I install an OES2SP1 guest server creating the following partitions:  /, swap, /local.   I can successfully connect the oes2sp1 guest server to our SAN via ISCSI.  I partition that san space with Partitioner.   I partition that space as a primary partition, ext3, and mount it as /local/data.  All works well.  Here is my problem:  the guest server will NOT reboot.  It hangs on shutting down with "unmounting file systems" staring back at me.   I have perfomed some tests.  With the ISCSI connection still connected, un-mount /local/data, then reboot the guest server it works fine.  So I must be messing something up with the creation of that partition.  I'm not quite getting it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Hans
-------------
	The cleanup material will look in /etc/fstab to discover mount points. Perhaps your system
lacks such mount points in the file?
	Joe D.

From HPfeil at uca.edu  Thu Apr  9 15:45:13 2009
From: HPfeil at uca.edu (Hans Pfeil)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:45:13 -0500
Subject: Guest server iscsi to san
In-Reply-To: <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu> <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>

Thanks Joe for your reply.  Here is my fstab file.  I'm not quite sure if there is anything missing.  I'm pretty new here.

/dev/xvda2            /                                              ext3                 acl,user_xattr                         1   1
/dev/svda3           /local                                      ext2                 acl,user_xattr                          1   2
/dev/xvda1           swap                                      swap               defaults                                    0   0
proc                     /proc                                        proc                 defaults                                   0   0
sysfs                    /sys                                          sysfs                noauto                                     0   0
debugfs              /sys/kernel/debug                  debugfs            noauto                                    0   0
devpts                /dev/pts                                   devpts              mode=0620,gid=5                0   0

/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-36000eb35c5dddda30000000000000107-part1       /local/data            ext3            acl,user_xattr         hotplug       1   2


Thanks for all your help

-Hans




>>> Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> 4/9/2009 9:16 AM >>>
Hans Pfeil wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> Running a SLES10SP2 fully patched XEN Host server running XFS for the file system.  I install an OES2SP1 guest server creating the following partitions:  /, swap, /local.   I can successfully connect the oes2sp1 guest server to our SAN via ISCSI.  I partition that san space with Partitioner.   I partition that space as a primary partition, ext3, and mount it as /local/data.  All works well.  Here is my problem:  the guest server will NOT reboot.  It hangs on shutting down with "unmounting file systems" staring back at me.   I have perfomed some tests.  With the ISCSI connection still connected, un-mount /local/data, then reboot the guest server it works fine.  So I must be messing something up with the creation of that partition.  I'm not quite getting it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Hans
-------------
	The cleanup material will look in /etc/fstab to discover mount points. Perhaps your system
lacks such mount points in the file?
	Joe D.
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From Hatchellb at vvc.edu  Thu Apr  9 15:47:21 2009
From: Hatchellb at vvc.edu (Brian Hatchell)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 07:47:21 -0700
Subject: Guest server iscsi to san
In-Reply-To: <49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu> <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49DDA8090200002400037FF2@lola.vvc.edu>

For what is worth, I have the same problem when rebooting mine and it is
not running as a guest.
 
It seems to have something to do with the ISCSI stack and I get the
errors on rebooting sometimes even when I shut off the NIC that runs the
ISCSI initiator.
 
 
Brian Hatchell
Network Manager
Victor Valley College
760 245-4271 x2792

*Always do more than is required of you.*
 
- General George S. Patton
 
Check my Blog at
http://gwcal.vvc.edu/mplusextranet/scp.dll/blog?user=hatchellb

>>> On 4/9/2009 at 7:45 AM, in message <49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0 at uca.edu>,
"Hans Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> wrote:

Thanks Joe for your reply.  Here is my fstab file.  I'm not quite sure
if there is anything missing.  I'm pretty new here.

/dev/xvda2            /                                             
ext3                 acl,user_xattr                         1   1
/dev/svda3           /local                                      ext2  
              acl,user_xattr                          1   2
/dev/xvda1           swap                                      swap    
          defaults                                    0   0
proc                     /proc                                       
proc                 defaults                                   0   0
sysfs                    /sys                                         
sysfs                noauto                                     0   0
debugfs              /sys/kernel/debug                  debugfs        
   noauto                                    0   0
devpts                /dev/pts                                   devpts
             mode=0620,gid=5                0   0

/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-36000eb35c5dddda30000000000000107-part1      
/local/data            ext3            acl,user_xattr         hotplug   
   1   2


Thanks for all your help

-Hans




>>> Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> 4/9/2009 9:16 AM >>>
Hans Pfeil wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> Running a SLES10SP2 fully patched XEN Host server running XFS for the
file system.  I install an OES2SP1 guest server creating the following
partitions:  /, swap, /local.   I can successfully connect the oes2sp1
guest server to our SAN via ISCSI.  I partition that san space with
Partitioner.   I partition that space as a primary partition, ext3, and
mount it as /local/data.  All works well.  Here is my problem:  the
guest server will NOT reboot.  It hangs on shutting down with
"unmounting file systems" staring back at me.   I have perfomed some
tests.  With the ISCSI connection still connected, un-mount /local/data,
then reboot the guest server it works fine.  So I must be messing
something up with the creation of that partition.  I'm not quite getting
it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Hans
-------------
The cleanup material will look in /etc/fstab to discover mount points.
Perhaps your system
lacks such mount points in the file?
Joe D.
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Thu Apr  9 16:19:33 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Joe Doupnik)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:19:33 +0100
Subject: Guest server iscsi to san
In-Reply-To: <49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu> <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49DE1205.7000507@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Hans,
	A couple of thoughts. First, the options to mount should be without spaces, just comma
separation. Thus that hotplug  option is misplaced.
	Second, I wonder if there is a sequencing problem at work, in that the network may be
down before the dismount is attempted. Careful inspection of /etc/init.d scripts and the screen
during shutdown should reveal more. There is a shutdown/dismount bug in SLES10 (and 11) which
affects dynamically mounted file systems such as sysfs and others.
	I don't run with iSCSI myself (funds, box counts, etc) but when I was tinkering with it this
winter there was no difficulty shutting down a guest in VMware. XEN may be doing things differently,
but the VMware guests were happy (as I dimmly recall).
	Joe D.
--------------
Hans Pfeil wrote:
> Thanks Joe for your reply.  Here is my fstab file.  I'm not quite sure if there is anything missing.  I'm pretty new here.
> 
> /dev/xvda2            /                                              ext3                 acl,user_xattr                         1   1
> /dev/svda3           /local                                      ext2                 acl,user_xattr                          1   2
> /dev/xvda1           swap                                      swap               defaults                                    0   0
> proc                     /proc                                        proc                 defaults                                   0   0
> sysfs                    /sys                                          sysfs                noauto                                     0   0
> debugfs              /sys/kernel/debug                  debugfs            noauto                                    0   0
> devpts                /dev/pts                                   devpts              mode=0620,gid=5                0   0
> 
> /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-36000eb35c5dddda30000000000000107-part1       /local/data            ext3            acl,user_xattr         hotplug       1   2
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your help
> 
> -Hans
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> 4/9/2009 9:16 AM >>>
> Hans Pfeil wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Running a SLES10SP2 fully patched XEN Host server running XFS for the file system.  I install an OES2SP1 guest server creating the following partitions:  /, swap, /local.   I can successfully connect the oes2sp1 guest server to our SAN via ISCSI.  I partition that san space with Partitioner.   I partition that space as a primary partition, ext3, and mount it as /local/data.  All works well.  Here is my problem:  the guest server will NOT reboot.  It hangs on shutting down with "unmounting file systems" staring back at me.   I have perfomed some tests.  With the ISCSI connection still connected, un-mount /local/data, then reboot the guest server it works fine.  So I must be messing something up with the creation of that partition.  I'm not quite getting it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hans
> -------------
> 	The cleanup material will look in /etc/fstab to discover mount points. Perhaps your system
> lacks such mount points in the file?
> 	Joe D.
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From HPfeil at uca.edu  Thu Apr  9 20:55:53 2009
From: HPfeil at uca.edu (Hans Pfeil)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:55:53 -0500
Subject: Guest server iscsi to san
In-Reply-To: <49DE1205.7000507@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu> <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu> <49DE1205.7000507@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49DE0C77.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>

Hey Joe, you are correct.  After looking at the logger screen while the server was shutting down I noticed the NICs being shutdown.  A few seconds later then the file systems try to shutdown.  That must be the hold up.  The NIC is already down with the ISCSI connection to the san.  Then when it's time to shutdown the file system it can't communicate to the partition out on the san becasue it's ISCSI and that NIC is already down.  How can I add a delay in shutting down the NICS and where would I do that?  Is this even possible?

Thanks
-Hans


>>> Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> 4/9/2009 10:19 AM >>>
Hans,
	A couple of thoughts. First, the options to mount should be without spaces, just comma
separation. Thus that hotplug  option is misplaced.
	Second, I wonder if there is a sequencing problem at work, in that the network may be
down before the dismount is attempted. Careful inspection of /etc/init.d scripts and the screen
during shutdown should reveal more. There is a shutdown/dismount bug in SLES10 (and 11) which
affects dynamically mounted file systems such as sysfs and others.
	I don't run with iSCSI myself (funds, box counts, etc) but when I was tinkering with it this
winter there was no difficulty shutting down a guest in VMware. XEN may be doing things differently,
but the VMware guests were happy (as I dimmly recall).
	Joe D.
--------------
Hans Pfeil wrote:
> Thanks Joe for your reply.  Here is my fstab file.  I'm not quite sure if there is anything missing.  I'm pretty new here.
> 
> /dev/xvda2            /                                              ext3                 acl,user_xattr                         1   1
> /dev/svda3           /local                                      ext2                 acl,user_xattr                          1   2
> /dev/xvda1           swap                                      swap               defaults                                    0   0
> proc                     /proc                                        proc                 defaults                                   0   0
> sysfs                    /sys                                          sysfs                noauto                                     0   0
> debugfs              /sys/kernel/debug                  debugfs            noauto                                    0   0
> devpts                /dev/pts                                   devpts              mode=0620,gid=5                0   0
> 
> /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-36000eb35c5dddda30000000000000107-part1       /local/data            ext3            acl,user_xattr         hotplug       1   2
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your help
> 
> -Hans
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> 4/9/2009 9:16 AM >>>
> Hans Pfeil wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Running a SLES10SP2 fully patched XEN Host server running XFS for the file system.  I install an OES2SP1 guest server creating the following partitions:  /, swap, /local.   I can successfully connect the oes2sp1 guest server to our SAN via ISCSI.  I partition that san space with Partitioner.   I partition that space as a primary partition, ext3, and mount it as /local/data.  All works well.  Here is my problem:  the guest server will NOT reboot.  It hangs on shutting down with "unmounting file systems" staring back at me.   I have perfomed some tests.  With the ISCSI connection still connected, un-mount /local/data, then reboot the guest server it works fine.  So I must be messing something up with the creation of that partition.  I'm not quite getting it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hans
> -------------
> 	The cleanup material will look in /etc/fstab to discover mount points. Perhaps your system
> lacks such mount points in the file?
> 	Joe D.
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 

_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From cjf at calfrye.com  Thu Apr  9 21:54:30 2009
From: cjf at calfrye.com (Cal Frye)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:54:30 -0400
Subject: Needed: IT User Policy examples
In-Reply-To: <49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
References: <49D33F70.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>	<49D395BC020000BB00054CA7@mail2.nds8.com>	<E0EC8C6B-2F7E-4B7E-A159-7653D2E803C5@yahoo.com>	<49DB1EB1.8A77.004D.0@enesco.com>	<49DB32320200003700017B6B@mct2.mctweb.net>
	<49DB6D70.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
Message-ID: <49DE6086.4010003@calfrye.com>

Michael Glenn wrote:
> Hallelujah! 
> 
> We've FINALLY managed to get the Big Boss to agree to an IT user policy! 
> 
> Now, all we have to do is write it. 
> :}

Congratulations! I'm not certain how much our policies would apply to
your situation; we're likely more permissive than you would like to be.
But for what it's worth, they're all publicly available at
http://www.oberlin.edu/cit/policies/default.html  Have fun!

-- 
Celebrating the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth,
and the 150th anniversary of the publication of the Origin of Species.
-- Cal Frye, Network Administrator, Oberlin College
   Mudd Library, x.56930 -- CIT will NEVER ask you for your password!

   www.calfrye.com,  www.pitalabs.com

"You can no longer save your family, tribe or nation. You can only save
the whole world." --Margaret Mead.

From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Thu Apr  9 22:13:57 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (jrd)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:13:57 +0100
Subject: Guest server iscsi to san
In-Reply-To: <49DE0C77.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>	<49DDC3A8.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
	<49DE1205.7000507@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49DE0C77.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49DE6515.9000809@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Hans,
	The first place to look is at the /etc/init.d start/stop script dependencies, shown as the comments near
the top of each file. See the results of those as the sequence numbers in the rcN.d S and K series symlinks. Use
chkconfig to add/subtract scripts, insserv to reorder (even though chkconfig calls insserv under some circumstances).
Have a look at halt.local as a possible spot to dismount the iSCSI material, and use network as a Required-Start item.
It is too late at night for me to dig deeper while writing this, so the above should be sufficient to dig into the
details when you have the chance.
	Joe D.
-------------

Hans Pfeil wrote:
> Hey Joe, you are correct.  After looking at the logger screen while the server was shutting down I noticed the NICs being shutdown.  A few seconds later then the file systems try to shutdown.  That must be the hold up.  The NIC is already down with the ISCSI connection to the san.  Then when it's time to shutdown the file system it can't communicate to the partition out on the san becasue it's ISCSI and that NIC is already down.  How can I add a delay in shutting down the NICS and where would I do that?  Is this even possible?
> 
> Thanks
> -Hans
> 
> 
>>>> Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> 4/9/2009 10:19 AM >>>
> Hans,
> 	A couple of thoughts. First, the options to mount should be without spaces, just comma
> separation. Thus that hotplug  option is misplaced.
> 	Second, I wonder if there is a sequencing problem at work, in that the network may be
> down before the dismount is attempted. Careful inspection of /etc/init.d scripts and the screen
> during shutdown should reveal more. There is a shutdown/dismount bug in SLES10 (and 11) which
> affects dynamically mounted file systems such as sysfs and others.
> 	I don't run with iSCSI myself (funds, box counts, etc) but when I was tinkering with it this
> winter there was no difficulty shutting down a guest in VMware. XEN may be doing things differently,
> but the VMware guests were happy (as I dimmly recall).
> 	Joe D.
> --------------
> Hans Pfeil wrote:
>> Thanks Joe for your reply.  Here is my fstab file.  I'm not quite sure if there is anything missing.  I'm pretty new here.
>>
>> /dev/xvda2            /                                              ext3                 acl,user_xattr                         1   1
>> /dev/svda3           /local                                      ext2                 acl,user_xattr                          1   2
>> /dev/xvda1           swap                                      swap               defaults                                    0   0
>> proc                     /proc                                        proc                 defaults                                   0   0
>> sysfs                    /sys                                          sysfs                noauto                                     0   0
>> debugfs              /sys/kernel/debug                  debugfs            noauto                                    0   0
>> devpts                /dev/pts                                   devpts              mode=0620,gid=5                0   0
>>
>> /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-36000eb35c5dddda30000000000000107-part1       /local/data            ext3            acl,user_xattr         hotplug       1   2
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all your help
>>
>> -Hans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> 4/9/2009 9:16 AM >>>
>> Hans Pfeil wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Running a SLES10SP2 fully patched XEN Host server running XFS for the file system.  I install an OES2SP1 guest server creating the following partitions:  /, swap, /local.   I can successfully connect the oes2sp1 guest server to our SAN via ISCSI.  I partition that san space with Partitioner.   I partition that space as a primary partition, ext3, and mount it as /local/data.  All works well.  Here is my problem:  the guest server will NOT reboot.  It hangs on shutting down with "unmounting file systems" staring back at me.   I have perfomed some tests.  With the ISCSI connection still connected, un-mount /local/data, then reboot the guest server it works fine.  So I must be messing something up with the creation of that partition.  I'm not quite getting it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Hans
>> -------------
>> 	The cleanup material will look in /etc/fstab to discover mount points. Perhaps your system
>> lacks such mount points in the file?
>> 	Joe D.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From scummings at louisvilletech.edu  Fri Apr 10 01:05:22 2009
From: scummings at louisvilletech.edu (Cummings, Steve)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:05:22 -0400
Subject: X Window Coordinates
Message-ID: <F4492CDB3173C44FB0E4B888F5A2E64E5FFA71C900@sv-ac-xod-exch1.suscorp.edu>

How are the dimension determined in X windows when a setting of -0+30 is set.

How are the vertical setting determined

In the manual, course 3064, on page 4-30, figure 4-22, sets with the following:

xterm -g 80x25 -0+30 &

Please advise


Stephen Cummings


From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Fri Apr 10 12:13:05 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (jrd)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:13:05 +0100
Subject: X Window Coordinates
In-Reply-To: <F4492CDB3173C44FB0E4B888F5A2E64E5FFA71C900@sv-ac-xod-exch1.suscorp.edu>
References: <F4492CDB3173C44FB0E4B888F5A2E64E5FFA71C900@sv-ac-xod-exch1.suscorp.edu>
Message-ID: <49DF29C1.5050809@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Cummings, Steve wrote:
> How are the dimension determined in X windows when a setting of -0+30 is set.
> 
> How are the vertical setting determined
> 
> In the manual, course 3064, on page 4-30, figure 4-22, sets with the following:
> 
> xterm -g 80x25 -0+30 &
> 
> Please advise
> 
> 
> Stephen Cummings
> 
------------
	Man xterm, then man X. This clipping may help:

        The WIDTH and HEIGHT parts of the geometry  specification  are  usually
        measured  in either pixels or characters, depending on the application.
        The XOFF and YOFF parts are measured in pixels and are used to  specify
        the  distance  of  the window from the left or right and top and bottom
        edges of the screen, respectively.  Both types of offsets are  measured
        from  the indicated edge of the screen to the corresponding edge of the
        window.  The X offset may be specified in the following ways:

        +XOFF   The left edge of the window is to be placed XOFF pixels in from
                the left edge of the screen (i.e., the X coordinate of the win?
                dow's origin will be XOFF).  XOFF may  be  negative,  in  which
                case the window's left edge will be off the screen.

        -XOFF   The  right  edge  of  the window is to be placed XOFF pixels in
                from the right edge of the screen.  XOFF may  be  negative,  in
                which case the window's right edge will be off the screen.

	Joe D.

From Robrinsky at roillc.com  Tue Apr 14 16:07:00 2009
From: Robrinsky at roillc.com (Robert Obrinsky)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:07:00 -0700
Subject: Certificates Question
Message-ID: <49E44424.9F9C.006D.0@roillc.com>

I am using a Netware 6.5.7 server.
 
If I export the public key certificate from the SSL-CertificateIP and SSL-CertificateDNS objects and then 'Open' them with my XP Pro workstation, there is a message stating that 'Windows Does Not Have Enough Information To Verify This Certificate'.  On the Certification Path tab, the IP Address or the Server Name (depending on which certificate is shown) with the message "The Issuer of This Certificate Could Not Be Found".
 
However, if I export the Trusted Root of those objects, Windows accepts it as a valid certificate although it would need to be imported into the Trusted Root Certificates Authorities store.
 
Does this mean that the Novell implementation of the public key certificates does not follow standards, or is this a problem on the Windows side?
 
Robert W. Obrinsky
President
Robert Obrinsky Industries, LLC
1908 SE 45th Avenue
Portland, OR 97215
503.719.4387 (Office)
203.273.7012 (Mobile)

From Robrinsky at roillc.com  Tue Apr 14 16:57:56 2009
From: Robrinsky at roillc.com (Robert Obrinsky)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:57:56 -0700
Subject: Certificates Question
In-Reply-To: <49E44424.9F9C.006D.0@roillc.com>
References: <49E44424.9F9C.006D.0@roillc.com>
Message-ID: <49E45014.9F9C.006D.0@roillc.com>

Well, after some experimenting, I found that after importing the Trusted Root Certificate in the Windows store, the Public Key Certificate seems to work. However, I am not able to authenticate to LDAP with my application when using the Public Key Certificate. I can authenticate to LDAP with the Trusted Root Certificate. In both cases, I am using port 636.
 
Can anyone direct me to a good primer on certificates and their uses? I must admit my education is a bit lacking on this subject.

>>> "Robert Obrinsky" <Robrinsky at roillc.com> 4/14/2009 8:07 AM >>>
I am using a Netware 6.5.7 server.

If I export the public key certificate from the SSL-CertificateIP and SSL-CertificateDNS objects and then 'Open' them with my XP Pro workstation, there is a message stating that 'Windows Does Not Have Enough Information To Verify This Certificate'.  On the Certification Path tab, the IP Address or the Server Name (depending on which certificate is shown) with the message "The Issuer of This Certificate Could Not Be Found".

However, if I export the Trusted Root of those objects, Windows accepts it as a valid certificate although it would need to be imported into the Trusted Root Certificates Authorities store.

Does this mean that the Novell implementation of the public key certificates does not follow standards, or is this a problem on the Windows side?

Robert W. Obrinsky
President
Robert Obrinsky Industries, LLC
1908 SE 45th Avenue
Portland, OR 97215
503.719.4387 (Office)
203.273.7012 (Mobile)
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From mkanfer at cssu.org  Fri Apr 17 17:37:17 2009
From: mkanfer at cssu.org (Mike Kanfer)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:37:17 -0400
Subject: NSS Problem
In-Reply-To: <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu> <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49E8776E.6307.0059.0@cssu.org>

I have a Netware 6.5 SP7 HP Proliant ML350 server that has a corrupt NSS pool. I was having memory issues that would consistently bring the machine down so I don't have a current backup. I've already run a pool verify and a pool rebuild to no avail. During pool rebuild I get the error "Can't Continue! Status 20444 ( Beast Tree.c [3403])". Any Ideas? 

From MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us  Fri Apr 17 18:39:21 2009
From: MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us (Michael Glenn)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:39:21 -0400
Subject: NSS Problem
In-Reply-To: <49E8776E.6307.0059.0@cssu.org>
References: <49DDBC46.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu> <49DE0358.5050305@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49E8776E.6307.0059.0@cssu.org>
Message-ID: <49E88689.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>

I found this on the Novell Forums:

http://forums.novell.com/novell-product-support-forums/open-enterprise-server/oes-netware/oes-nw-storage-media/345202-corrupted-nss-pool-after-hdd-crash.html 

Heroic measures are prescribed.
:(


>>> "Mike Kanfer" <mkanfer at cssu.org> 04/17/2009 12:37 >>>
I have a Netware 6.5 SP7 HP Proliant ML350 server that has a corrupt NSS pool. I was having memory issues that would consistently bring the machine down so I don't have a current backup. I've already run a pool verify and a pool rebuild to no avail. During pool rebuild I get the error "Can't Continue! Status 20444 ( Beast Tree.c [3403])". Any Ideas? 


From bbrush at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 20:59:34 2009
From: bbrush at gmail.com (Bill Brush)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:59:34 -0500
Subject: Whither Novell?
Message-ID: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>

So it would seem that the inevitable day of reckoning is fast
approaching and we are facing the question of what to do with our file
server infrastructure.  I am working very hard at not being a hide
bound old reactionary dinosaur when it comes to the question, although
that's very difficult when I contemplate the removal of our Netware
cluster and replacing it with Windoze boxes.  It's hard to deny
however that something has to be done, and it's better to look at it
now when it's not a problem than wait until a disaster occurs.

Ultimately, I question whether OES-L is going to grow into a worthy
replacement for Netware from a file and print standpoint.  We have
some OES-L boxes here, but they're a tad twitchy and get a lot of ire
directed at them due to odd incidents where something breaks and no
one really knows why.

We also have the problem that Novell as a company seems to be, unclear
in its focus.  I hear that they're very interested in obtaining and
retaining academic customers, but I don't consider an e-mail once
every 2 months to be doing much for establishing a relationship.  I
guess that is one of the things that irks me more than anything.
Novell needs to be out there establishing a channel (since Messman
destroyed the last one), and working to get customers and they seem
oblivious to this.  I see my storage vendor sales rep at least
quarterly (in the flesh) and he calls me on a semi-regular basis.  If
a company doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to
patronize them?  Other vendors stop by, learn our business,  and take
us out to lunch.  Hell even Microsoft had a rep here and available for
questions not too long ago.

If it comes down to it, what options do I have other than MS and
Novell?  A straight up Linux/SAMBA install isn't going to cut it with
terabytes of storage and a need for good management.

So what do you fine ladies and gentlemen think?  What have you found
out there for storing files other than M$ or Novell?

Bill

From Hatchellb at vvc.edu  Fri Apr 17 21:52:58 2009
From: Hatchellb at vvc.edu (Brian Hatchell)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:52:58 -0700
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E889BA0200002400038F98@lola.vvc.edu>

I find myself in a similar mess and watch this thread with interest.
 
Brian Hatchell
Network Manager
Victor Valley College
760 245-4271 x2792

*Always do more than is required of you.*
 
- General George S. Patton
 
Check my Blog at
http://gwcal.vvc.edu/mplusextranet/scp.dll/blog?user=hatchellb


>>> On 4/17/2009 at 12:59 PM, in message
<167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b at mail.gmail.com>, Bill Brush
<bbrush at gmail.com> wrote:

So it would seem that the inevitable day of reckoning is fast
approaching and we are facing the question of what to do with our file
server infrastructure.  I am working very hard at not being a hide
bound old reactionary dinosaur when it comes to the question, although
that's very difficult when I contemplate the removal of our Netware
cluster and replacing it with Windoze boxes.  It's hard to deny
however that something has to be done, and it's better to look at it
now when it's not a problem than wait until a disaster occurs.

Ultimately, I question whether OES-L is going to grow into a worthy
replacement for Netware from a file and print standpoint.  We have
some OES-L boxes here, but they're a tad twitchy and get a lot of ire
directed at them due to odd incidents where something breaks and no
one really knows why.

We also have the problem that Novell as a company seems to be, unclear
in its focus.  I hear that they're very interested in obtaining and
retaining academic customers, but I don't consider an e-mail once
every 2 months to be doing much for establishing a relationship.  I
guess that is one of the things that irks me more than anything.
Novell needs to be out there establishing a channel (since Messman
destroyed the last one), and working to get customers and they seem
oblivious to this.  I see my storage vendor sales rep at least
quarterly (in the flesh) and he calls me on a semi-regular basis.  If
a company doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to
patronize them?  Other vendors stop by, learn our business,  and take
us out to lunch.  Hell even Microsoft had a rep here and available for
questions not too long ago.

If it comes down to it, what options do I have other than MS and
Novell?  A straight up Linux/SAMBA install isn't going to cut it with
terabytes of storage and a need for good management.

So what do you fine ladies and gentlemen think?  What have you found
out there for storing files other than M$ or Novell?

Bill
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From RGrein at tpchd.org  Fri Apr 17 22:04:21 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:04:21 -0700
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E88C650200007200001C25@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

Your assumption that 'A straight up Linux/SAMBA install isn't going to cut it with terabytes of storage and a need for good management' is a little short. The stock tools aren't sufficient, but Amazon, Google and others are doing a bang-up job with linux. And nearly all NAS devices are either linux or Windows storage services based, including netapp. Of course, in your situation rolling your own solution isn't exactly easy - unless you have google-caliber talent to tap.

We have similar problems - few novell partners left in the Seattle area, the Novell office closed long ago and my manager mandated a change from netware a few months ago. He insists, however that Zen is staying and he's on the fence with Groupwise. I JUST had a conversation with him about the last part; he wants to put Groupwise on Windows, but he also wants it clustered (in a virtual environment). When asked if I could put SUSE in the mix to review he was a little ambivalent but relented.

If linux isn't to your taste you could consider an OS X solution. Market penetration is microscopic right now, but it's growing. Big article in one of the magazines last summer about an auto repair company with a big national presence moving from Windows to, of all things Apple. They are saving big - the Windows licensing savings alone will pay for the software, hardware and conversion with cash to spare. After all, at bottom it is just BSD unix dressed up in a nice Mac happy face... (grin)





Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> 4/17/2009 12:59 PM >>>
So it would seem that the inevitable day of reckoning is fast
approaching and we are facing the question of what to do with our file
server infrastructure.  I am working very hard at not being a hide
bound old reactionary dinosaur when it comes to the question, although
that's very difficult when I contemplate the removal of our Netware
cluster and replacing it with Windoze boxes.  It's hard to deny
however that something has to be done, and it's better to look at it
now when it's not a problem than wait until a disaster occurs.

Ultimately, I question whether OES-L is going to grow into a worthy
replacement for Netware from a file and print standpoint.  We have
some OES-L boxes here, but they're a tad twitchy and get a lot of ire
directed at them due to odd incidents where something breaks and no
one really knows why.

We also have the problem that Novell as a company seems to be, unclear
in its focus.  I hear that they're very interested in obtaining and
retaining academic customers, but I don't consider an e-mail once
every 2 months to be doing much for establishing a relationship.  I
guess that is one of the things that irks me more than anything.
Novell needs to be out there establishing a channel (since Messman
destroyed the last one), and working to get customers and they seem
oblivious to this.  I see my storage vendor sales rep at least
quarterly (in the flesh) and he calls me on a semi-regular basis.  If
a company doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to
patronize them?  Other vendors stop by, learn our business,  and take
us out to lunch.  Hell even Microsoft had a rep here and available for
questions not too long ago.

If it comes down to it, what options do I have other than MS and
Novell?  A straight up Linux/SAMBA install isn't going to cut it with
terabytes of storage and a need for good management.

So what do you fine ladies and gentlemen think?  What have you found
out there for storing files other than M$ or Novell?

Bill
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

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From tim at nds8.co.uk  Fri Apr 17 22:53:20 2009
From: tim at nds8.co.uk (Tim Heywood)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:53:20 +0100
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E90860020000BB000578C3@mail2.nds8.com>

I know  that a lot of places that have the same dilemma as you, and the
folk on this list have heard this from me before however, it is worth
saying again:  Where is Windows going?

I posed this question to two large Scottish financial institutions (one
who pays MS $50m a year and has been in the papers rather a lot...)
working through the official MS statements and then priming both of them
with the right questions to ask.  A "Senior" member of the windows
server team came over from Redmond to see both companies - and could not
satisfy either as to a road map - NDA or no NDA there was no road map
beyond 2008R2   -  You get Azure and the M$ data centre or you are left
in the cold.

At least with Linux you have a road map and a development stream.  

We have a client (Non Federal Government) in Scotland that we put onto
an OES1 cluster a couple of years ago now - they had problems with more
than 4000 users connected to a single node.  As problem go it's not a
bad one but it did draw a lot of flack: We solved that easily and their
record is 6270 users connect to one OES (SLES9) Linux node in a cluster.
  This same client will be deploying OES2 this summer with conviction
that done right and with the right planning Linux and OES2 works very
well.  

You folk all remember NW4.10, indeed a lot of you started with 4.0
(fools...) Back then we used to spend the time planning and as a result
the ROI really paid off.  If you blindly throw machines at a network (or
put heavily used GW systems in a VM environment) then you pay the price,
but is it the software's fault or is it the lack of forethought and
planning?

You all know me, I am red (turning rather green...) through and through
- but for the last 12 months I actually feel like I have a future ;-/ 
Now, if only we can start a Novell marketing department!

T


-- 
 
Tim Heywood
NDS8
Novell Platinum Solution Provider
 
Office:  +44 (0) 131 538 8202
Mobile:  +44 (0) 7974 134264








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From cal.frye at oberlin.edu  Sat Apr 18 02:37:04 2009
From: cal.frye at oberlin.edu (Cal Frye)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:37:04 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49E90860020000BB000578C3@mail2.nds8.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E90860020000BB000578C3@mail2.nds8.com>
Message-ID: <49E92EC0.9040300@oberlin.edu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Tim Heywood wrote:
> We have a client (Non Federal Government) in Scotland that we put onto
> an OES1 cluster a couple of years ago now - they had problems with more
> than 4000 users connected to a single node.  As problem go it's not a
> bad one but it did draw a lot of flack: We solved that easily and their
> record is 6270 users connect to one OES (SLES9) Linux node in a cluster.
>   This same client will be deploying OES2 this summer with conviction
> that done right and with the right planning Linux and OES2 works very
> well.  

That's a good story to hear. We have about that many users in the whole
organization! For what it's worth, we've begun the process of migrating
a four-node 6.5 cluster over to an OES2 cluster with a 40TB HP SAN for
storage. We're going slowly, but we're used to migrations -- we began
with NW 3.0 and I think may have hit every version in between ;-)

The 6.5 cluster has been a big hit, we hope the new one will turn out as
well. As we gain experience, we'll report back.

- --
Celebrating the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth,
and the 150th anniversary of the publication of the Origin of Species.
- -- Cal Frye, Network Administrator, Oberlin College
   Mudd Library, x.56930 -- CIT will NEVER ask you for your password!

   www.calfrye.com,  www.pitalabs.com

"Everywhere I have sought rest and not found it, except sitting in a
corner by myself with a little book." --Thomas a Kempis, attrib. (1380-1471)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAknpLsAACgkQcZlA4wu9pSAQvgCeIHjpGItF+QKfvNWoHP+KVKU8
25sAnRiSaKUIMzUhlCbGQiDDa63OU+cr
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From bbrush at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 03:24:14 2009
From: bbrush at gmail.com (Bill Brush)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:24:14 -0500
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49E88C650200007200001C25@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E88C650200007200001C25@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
Message-ID: <167f4090904171924w378c467x272c96f0ddb9d15b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Randy Grein <RGrein at tpchd.org> wrote:

> If linux isn't to your taste you could consider an OS X solution. Market penetration is microscopic right now, but it's growing. Big article in one of the magazines last summer about an auto repair company with a big national presence moving from Windows to, of all things Apple. They are saving big - the Windows licensing savings alone will pay for the software, hardware and conversion with cash to spare. After all, at bottom it is just BSD unix dressed up in a nice Mac happy face... (grin)


As an addendum that I forgot to mention originally, my argument is
further weakened by the fact that we're covered by a University MS
campus agreement that pretty much negates any cost argument.  IIRC our
license cost for M$ is something like 10% of list.

I'm happy and comfortable with Linux, but I've never been impressed
with straight vanilla Linux file sharing.  I think I even have a Linux
cert from Novell kicking around here somewhere.  :-)

Anyone backed up Linux with Commvault?

From jrd at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk  Sat Apr 18 18:32:36 2009
From: jrd at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk (jrd)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:32:36 +0100
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Bill Brush wrote:
> So it would seem that the inevitable day of reckoning is fast
> approaching and we are facing the question of what to do with our file
> server infrastructure.  I am working very hard at not being a hide
> bound old reactionary dinosaur when it comes to the question, although
> that's very difficult when I contemplate the removal of our Netware
> cluster and replacing it with Windoze boxes.  It's hard to deny
> however that something has to be done, and it's better to look at it
> now when it's not a problem than wait until a disaster occurs.
>
> Ultimately, I question whether OES-L is going to grow into a worthy
> replacement for Netware from a file and print standpoint.  We have
> some OES-L boxes here, but they're a tad twitchy and get a lot of ire
> directed at them due to odd incidents where something breaks and no
> one really knows why.
>
> We also have the problem that Novell as a company seems to be, unclear
> in its focus.  I hear that they're very interested in obtaining and
> retaining academic customers, but I don't consider an e-mail once
> every 2 months to be doing much for establishing a relationship.  I
> guess that is one of the things that irks me more than anything.
> Novell needs to be out there establishing a channel (since Messman
> destroyed the last one), and working to get customers and they seem
> oblivious to this.  I see my storage vendor sales rep at least
> quarterly (in the flesh) and he calls me on a semi-regular basis.  If
> a company doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to
> patronize them?  Other vendors stop by, learn our business,  and take
> us out to lunch.  Hell even Microsoft had a rep here and available for
> questions not too long ago.
>
> If it comes down to it, what options do I have other than MS and
> Novell?  A straight up Linux/SAMBA install isn't going to cut it with
> terabytes of storage and a need for good management.
>
> So what do you fine ladies and gentlemen think?  What have you found
> out there for storing files other than M$ or Novell?
>
> Bill
>
>   
----------
       You are expressing opinions shared by many folks. Yet, I think 
there is
something amiss on the client/customer side these days which may help in
thinking through the situation.
       It revolves about that often stated situation, as you write, "If 
a company
doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to patronize them?" Can
we see the problem here? I don't think we are buying social visits from 
vendor
reps, as nice as such visits may be. We aren't necessarily patronizing a 
vendor
as if bestowing favors and honors; I thought it was all about goods vs 
money.
Do we really care what a vendor thinks of us personally, provided they don't
tell others?
       Purchasing a technical product or service is usually what we 
intend. We do
need information about those, with web sites providing the ten minute tour.
These days we don't need a door to door sales person to inform us of the
existence of a product; the Internet does a far better job. I would 
rather shop
in private rather than having a particular vendor bend my ear or 
carefully guide
a live demo. Trade shows, special events, the grape-vine, peer comments,
and the all  important lab testing of eval versions, are ways of 
gathering information
with varying degrees of bias, vendor presentations having the highest 
such degree.
       My concern about the critiques of a vendor's marketing efforts is 
that
much of the critical comments are about personal relations, not 
products. There
is a second hidden assumption, which is the desire to have vendors come to
us, on bended knee, with chocolates, rather than us do shopping on our own
as we do for nearly everything else. It is understood that higher beings 
(C*O)
are often swayed by smooth city slickers murmuring sweet nothings in the 
ear,
as if that had any connection with technical matters.
       As we have seen, I think our comments would carry more impact 
with the
company and with our peers if we would remove this personal aspect and
return to products and finances and the like.
       Joe D.




From ksebolt at franciscan.edu  Sat Apr 18 18:33:05 2009
From: ksebolt at franciscan.edu (Kevin Sebolt)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:33:05 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell? (Out of the office)
Message-ID: <s9e9d696.082@gw2004.franciscan.edu>


I will be out of the office the week of April 20, 2009.  I will be
checking my e-mail periodically during that week.  Thank you.


From rwhalen at stmarys-ca.edu  Mon Apr 20 19:47:59 2009
From: rwhalen at stmarys-ca.edu (Rob Whalen)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:47:59 -0700
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu>

All,
We have an issue with IE giving errors with the Novell certs, due to no 
trusted root. If I set up my Certificate Authority to be subordinate to 
an external trusted root, will that solve the issue? It seems this might 
be easier than replacing all of the server certs with third party certs. 
Anyone been down this road?
Thanks,
Rob Whalen


From hamid at stmarys-ca.edu  Mon Apr 20 19:59:59 2009
From: hamid at stmarys-ca.edu (Hamid Mostaghimi)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:59:59 -0700
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu>
Message-ID: <49ECC62F.30501@stmarys-ca.edu>

Do we have a certificate authority root server?

Hamid Mostaghimi
Saint Mary's College of California
Computer and Technology Services
(925) 631-6288



Rob Whalen wrote:
> All,
> We have an issue with IE giving errors with the Novell certs, due to 
> no trusted root. If I set up my Certificate Authority to be 
> subordinate to an external trusted root, will that solve the issue? It 
> seems this might be easier than replacing all of the server certs with 
> third party certs. Anyone been down this road?
> Thanks,
> Rob Whalen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From bbrush at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 21:24:59 2009
From: bbrush at gmail.com (Bill Brush)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:24:59 -0500
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 12:32 PM, jrd <jrd at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> ? ? ?You are expressing opinions shared by many folks. Yet, I think there is
> something amiss on the client/customer side these days which may help in
> thinking through the situation.
> ? ? ?It revolves about that often stated situation, as you write, "If a
> company
> doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to patronize them?" Can
> we see the problem here? I don't think we are buying social visits from
> vendor
> reps, as nice as such visits may be. We aren't necessarily patronizing a
> vendor
> as if bestowing favors and honors; I thought it was all about goods vs
> money.
> Do we really care what a vendor thinks of us personally, provided they don't
> tell others?


I think in sales speak we're dealing with something that used to be a
"delighter" having been moved to a "qualifier."  It used to be that
people were delighted by a good sales relationship.  Now we've come to
expect it for a company to qualify as a candidate.   I don't know
about you, but if I go to a restaurant and get exceptionally poor
service, it doesn't matter how good the food is, I'm not coming back.
Likewise with Novell, if they make it painful to deal with them, it
doesn't matter how good their products are, I'm not going to want to
use them.

A good case in point is Novell's Tech Support.  It used to be the
standard to which I held all other companies.  Now it's just an "also
ran."  The off-shoring of the support team with the attendant loss of
institutional memory, and culture has changed it from something I was
happy to deal with to something I dread.

Not having a go at Joe on this one,  but Novell has long had an
attitude of "our products are the best from a technical standpoint, so
everyone should beat a path to our door" and it just isn't going to
happen.  Being the best from a technical standpoint isn't enough to
win in the marketplace and I'm perpetually amazed by Novell's cultural
blindness to that fact.  The I.T. industry is littered with  the
corpses of products that were superior technology, but lost out to
other products that fit the market better.

Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of being the Novell champion and if
I hadn't spent the last 10 years getting this network changed from a
liability to an asset I would probably just say "Go ahead and move to
M$ file servers, and enjoy the pain that will cause."  But the fact of
the matter is, I have spent the last 10 years transforming this
network and I have too much invested to just chuck it all.  I think I
can convince the boss that moving to OES-L is the better course of
action, but if I do I don't think it will be because Novell helped me
with it, it will be because it'd be a lower labor cost option when
compared to moving terabytes of data to an entirely different server
OS.

Bill

From douglasbecker at cox.net  Mon Apr 20 22:15:36 2009
From: douglasbecker at cox.net (Douglas Becker)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:15:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Whither Novell?
Message-ID: <8963521.98479.1240262136686.JavaMail.douglasbecker@127.0.0.1>

I have to agree with Bill here.  I am in the same boat, having to decide 
and recommend what to move to when support for 6.5 goes away.  I would 
love to stay with Novell and just move to OES, however there are many 
components here that are trying to go the M$ route.  We already have 2 
M$ servers since the accounting system stopped supporting Netware as a 
platform to install to.  Since then I am questioned daily about moving 
all the rest to M$ servers.

I used to get calls from Novell about once a quarter.  Now I am getting 
those calles from Microsoft and I have not received anything from Novell 
in about 18-24 months.  I know that the move to OES will be cheaper in 
both hardware and licensing cost, but sometimes it is like pulling teeth 
to get pricing for Novell from my vendors.  It is like they have no 
support either.

I am a small shop.  I am the only IT person for the entire company.  I 
have about 150 users and 4 servers (as I mentioned above 2 are already 
Windows and have to stay that way) so a move to OES would be ideal as 
one of the servers is file and print sharing and the other is out GW 
server.  To go to M$ I am pretty sure will cost more in hardware as well 
as in OS/program and licensing costs, but I am still trying to get that 
information.

I am reading this thread with extreme interest.



Douglas Becker

douglasbecker at cox.net


On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 5:06 PM , Bill Brush wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 12:32 PM, jrd <jrd at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk> 
> wrote:
>> ? ? ?You are expressing opinions shared by many folks. Yet, I think 
>> there is
>> something amiss on the client/customer side these days which may help 
>> in
>> thinking through the situation.
>> ? ? ?It revolves about that often stated situation, as you write, "If 
>> a
>> company
>> doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to patronize 
>> them?" Can
>> we see the problem here? I don't think we are buying social visits 
>> from
>> vendor
>> reps, as nice as such visits may be. We aren't necessarily 
>> patronizing a
>> vendor
>> as if bestowing favors and honors; I thought it was all about goods 
>> vs
>> money.
>> Do we really care what a vendor thinks of us personally, provided 
>> they don't
>> tell others?
>
>
> I think in sales speak we're dealing with something that used to be a
> "delighter" having been moved to a "qualifier."  It used to be that
> people were delighted by a good sales relationship.  Now we've come to
> expect it for a company to qualify as a candidate.   I don't know
> about you, but if I go to a restaurant and get exceptionally poor
> service, it doesn't matter how good the food is, I'm not coming back.
> Likewise with Novell, if they make it painful to deal with them, it
> doesn't matter how good their products are, I'm not going to want to
> use them.
>
> A good case in point is Novell's Tech Support.  It used to be the
> standard to which I held all other companies.  Now it's just an "also
> ran."  The off-shoring of the support team with the attendant loss of
> institutional memory, and culture has changed it from something I was
> happy to deal with to something I dread.
>
> Not having a go at Joe on this one,  but Novell has long had an
> attitude of "our products are the best from a technical standpoint, so
> everyone should beat a path to our door" and it just isn't going to
> happen.  Being the best from a technical standpoint isn't enough to
> win in the marketplace and I'm perpetually amazed by Novell's cultural
> blindness to that fact.  The I.T. industry is littered with  the
> corpses of products that were superior technology, but lost out to
> other products that fit the market better.
>
> Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of being the Novell champion and if
> I hadn't spent the last 10 years getting this network changed from a
> liability to an asset I would probably just say "Go ahead and move to
> M$ file servers, and enjoy the pain that will cause."  But the fact of
> the matter is, I have spent the last 10 years transforming this
> network and I have too much invested to just chuck it all.  I think I
> can convince the boss that moving to OES-L is the better course of
> action, but if I do I don't think it will be because Novell helped me
> with it, it will be because it'd be a lower labor cost option when
> compared to moving terabytes of data to an entirely different server
> OS.
>
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From joea at j4computers.com  Mon Apr 20 23:12:05 2009
From: joea at j4computers.com (joea at j4computers.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:12:05 -0400
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu>
Message-ID: <49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES>

>>> On 4/20/2009 at 2:47 PM, Rob Whalen <rwhalen at stmarys-ca.edu> wrote:
> All,
> We have an issue with IE giving errors with the Novell certs, due to no 
> trusted root. If I set up my Certificate Authority to be subordinate to 
> an external trusted root, will that solve the issue? It seems this might 
> be easier than replacing all of the server certs with third party certs. 
> Anyone been down this road?
> Thanks,
> Rob Whalen

You merely have to tell IE to trust the certs.  Unfortunately, that has to be done at each PC.  I don't have the exact steps, but there are TID's on how to do it.   I followed them and no longer have that issue.

joe a.


From joea at j4computers.com  Mon Apr 20 23:15:19 2009
From: joea at j4computers.com (joea at j4computers.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:15:19 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>

I was pondering a response to this thread, but  Bill has said just about everything
I would have said, and probably better.

joe a. 

>>> On 4/20/2009 at 4:24 PM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 12:32 PM, jrd <jrd at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>      You are expressing opinions shared by many folks. Yet, I think there is
>> something amiss on the client/customer side these days which may help in
>> thinking through the situation.
>>      It revolves about that often stated situation, as you write, "If a
>> company
>> doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to patronize them?" Can
>> we see the problem here? I don't think we are buying social visits from
>> vendor
>> reps, as nice as such visits may be. We aren't necessarily patronizing a
>> vendor
>> as if bestowing favors and honors; I thought it was all about goods vs
>> money.
>> Do we really care what a vendor thinks of us personally, provided they don't
>> tell others?
> 
> 
> I think in sales speak we're dealing with something that used to be a
> "delighter" having been moved to a "qualifier."  It used to be that
> people were delighted by a good sales relationship.  Now we've come to
> expect it for a company to qualify as a candidate.   I don't know
> about you, but if I go to a restaurant and get exceptionally poor
> service, it doesn't matter how good the food is, I'm not coming back.
> Likewise with Novell, if they make it painful to deal with them, it
> doesn't matter how good their products are, I'm not going to want to
> use them.
> 
> A good case in point is Novell's Tech Support.  It used to be the
> standard to which I held all other companies.  Now it's just an "also
> ran."  The off-shoring of the support team with the attendant loss of
> institutional memory, and culture has changed it from something I was
> happy to deal with to something I dread.
> 
> Not having a go at Joe on this one,  but Novell has long had an
> attitude of "our products are the best from a technical standpoint, so
> everyone should beat a path to our door" and it just isn't going to
> happen.  Being the best from a technical standpoint isn't enough to
> win in the marketplace and I'm perpetually amazed by Novell's cultural
> blindness to that fact.  The I.T. industry is littered with  the
> corpses of products that were superior technology, but lost out to
> other products that fit the market better.
> 
> Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of being the Novell champion and if
> I hadn't spent the last 10 years getting this network changed from a
> liability to an asset I would probably just say "Go ahead and move to
> M$ file servers, and enjoy the pain that will cause."  But the fact of
> the matter is, I have spent the last 10 years transforming this
> network and I have too much invested to just chuck it all.  I think I
> can convince the boss that moving to OES-L is the better course of
> action, but if I do I don't think it will be because Novell helped me
> with it, it will be because it'd be a lower labor cost option when
> compared to moving terabytes of data to an entirely different server
> OS.
> 
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 




From alandpearson at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 20 23:20:54 2009
From: alandpearson at yahoo.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:20:54 +0100
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu>
	<49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES>
Message-ID: <B2139661-7F04-43BB-9877-D4D9E40B1413@yahoo.com>


On 20 Apr 2009, at 23:12, joea at j4computers.com wrote:

> You merely have to tell IE to trust the certs.  Unfortunately, that  
> has to be done at each PC.  I don't have the exact steps, but there  
> are TID's on how to do it.   I followed them and no longer have that  
> issue.

Is there any way this can be done via zenworks ?
That would be awesome.


Tnx
Alan


From alandpearson at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 20 23:24:46 2009
From: alandpearson at yahoo.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:24:46 +0100
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>
Message-ID: <6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>

GUys,

I've weighed in on this before, albeit from a slightly different angle.
OES 1 was an incomplete product, and it showed.

OES 2 on the other hand seems to be very very solid, and NSS  
performance is at last on a par with native filesystems.
Novell makes Linux work in the enterprise, and they are the only  
people on the block who have managed to have a solid Linux backend for  
managing Windows, Linux + Mac networks.

As I've said before, it'll be a cold day before we have a MS backend  
in our place, and Novell on linux does all we need, and much more  
besides.

I don't come from a Netware background, and Novell was all new to us,  
chosen because it runs on Linux.
As I said OES 1 had problems, but OES 2 really does work very well,  
and very reliably.




---
AlanP


On 20 Apr 2009, at 23:15, joea at j4computers.com wrote:

> I was pondering a response to this thread, but  Bill has said just  
> about everything
> I would have said, and probably better.
>
> joe a.
>
>>>> On 4/20/2009 at 4:24 PM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 12:32 PM, jrd <jrd at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>  
>> wrote:
>>>     You are expressing opinions shared by many folks. Yet, I think  
>>> there is
>>> something amiss on the client/customer side these days which may  
>>> help in
>>> thinking through the situation.
>>>     It revolves about that often stated situation, as you write,  
>>> "If a
>>> company
>>> doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to patronize  
>>> them?" Can
>>> we see the problem here? I don't think we are buying social visits  
>>> from
>>> vendor
>>> reps, as nice as such visits may be. We aren't necessarily  
>>> patronizing a
>>> vendor
>>> as if bestowing favors and honors; I thought it was all about  
>>> goods vs
>>> money.
>>> Do we really care what a vendor thinks of us personally, provided  
>>> they don't
>>> tell others?
>>
>>
>> I think in sales speak we're dealing with something that used to be a
>> "delighter" having been moved to a "qualifier."  It used to be that
>> people were delighted by a good sales relationship.  Now we've come  
>> to
>> expect it for a company to qualify as a candidate.   I don't know
>> about you, but if I go to a restaurant and get exceptionally poor
>> service, it doesn't matter how good the food is, I'm not coming back.
>> Likewise with Novell, if they make it painful to deal with them, it
>> doesn't matter how good their products are, I'm not going to want to
>> use them.
>>
>> A good case in point is Novell's Tech Support.  It used to be the
>> standard to which I held all other companies.  Now it's just an "also
>> ran."  The off-shoring of the support team with the attendant loss of
>> institutional memory, and culture has changed it from something I was
>> happy to deal with to something I dread.
>>
>> Not having a go at Joe on this one,  but Novell has long had an
>> attitude of "our products are the best from a technical standpoint,  
>> so
>> everyone should beat a path to our door" and it just isn't going to
>> happen.  Being the best from a technical standpoint isn't enough to
>> win in the marketplace and I'm perpetually amazed by Novell's  
>> cultural
>> blindness to that fact.  The I.T. industry is littered with  the
>> corpses of products that were superior technology, but lost out to
>> other products that fit the market better.
>>
>> Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of being the Novell champion and if
>> I hadn't spent the last 10 years getting this network changed from a
>> liability to an asset I would probably just say "Go ahead and move to
>> M$ file servers, and enjoy the pain that will cause."  But the fact  
>> of
>> the matter is, I have spent the last 10 years transforming this
>> network and I have too much invested to just chuck it all.  I think I
>> can convince the boss that moving to OES-L is the better course of
>> action, but if I do I don't think it will be because Novell helped me
>> with it, it will be because it'd be a lower labor cost option when
>> compared to moving terabytes of data to an entirely different server
>> OS.
>>
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell



From sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us  Mon Apr 20 23:34:15 2009
From: sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us (Steve Utick)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:34:15 -0600
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>
	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>

I'll second what Alan said.   I've just started putting in some OES2 Linux servers.   They have been rock solid from day one.

They just run, like the NetWare that they replaced.   Yes, there were a few quirky things that we had to solve in the migrations, but there was during all of our prior NetWare migrations as well.

I've replaced three of our servers so far.   Haven't touched them since we put them in 1-2 months ago.

I was a bit worried about the NSS speed, hearing what I had.   But, It's BLAZINGLY fast compared to the NetWare it replaced.   Compression, salvage and all.

I like it, and will continue to replace NetWare with OES2 Linux.   I maintain as little Windows here as possible.





-- 

---------------------------------------------------
Steve Utick
Infrastructure Center Supervisor
Lewis & Clark County
316 N. Park - Room 211
Helena, MT  59623
---------------------------------------------------
>>> On 4/20/2009 at 4:24 PM, in message
<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD at yahoo.com>, Alan Pearson
<alandpearson at yahoo.com> wrote:
> GUys,
> 
> I've weighed in on this before, albeit from a slightly different angle.
> OES 1 was an incomplete product, and it showed.
> 
> OES 2 on the other hand seems to be very very solid, and NSS  
> performance is at last on a par with native filesystems.
> Novell makes Linux work in the enterprise, and they are the only  
> people on the block who have managed to have a solid Linux backend for  
> managing Windows, Linux + Mac networks.
> 
> As I've said before, it'll be a cold day before we have a MS backend  
> in our place, and Novell on linux does all we need, and much more  
> besides.
> 
> I don't come from a Netware background, and Novell was all new to us,  
> chosen because it runs on Linux.
> As I said OES 1 had problems, but OES 2 really does work very well,  
> and very reliably.
> 


-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Steve Utick.vcf
URL: <http://netlab1.usu.edu/pipermail/novell/attachments/20090420/340c2af7/attachment.bat>

From mrsmith at oconee.k12.ga.us  Tue Apr 21 13:21:53 2009
From: mrsmith at oconee.k12.ga.us (Matt Smith)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:21:53 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>
	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>
	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>
Message-ID: <49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>

>>> On 4/20/2009 at 6:34 PM, in message
<49ECA407020000ED0001145D at lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>, "Steve
Utick"
<sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us> wrote:
> I'll second what Alan said.   I've just started putting in some OES2
Linux 
> servers.   They have been rock solid from day one.
> 
> They just run, like the NetWare that they replaced.   Yes, there were
a few 
> quirky things that we had to solve in the migrations, but there was
during 
> all of our prior NetWare migrations as well.
> 
> I've replaced three of our servers so far.   Haven't touched them
since we 
> put them in 1-2 months ago.
> 
> I was a bit worried about the NSS speed, hearing what I had.   But,
It's 
> BLAZINGLY fast compared to the NetWare it replaced.   Compression,
salvage 
> and all.
> 
> I like it, and will continue to replace NetWare with OES2 Linux.   I

> maintain as little Windows here as possible.

I'll "third" what Alan and Steve have both said.  I am honestly bemused
at all the fuss over "what do we do after netware."  OES Linux works
great, and the transition is seamless from the end-user point of view. 
I don't get as much Novell SWAG as I used to, but that doesn't mean I'm
doing to drop them as my preferred vendor for OS and stuff.  I do wonder
if Novell's got a particularly effective marketing strategy.

And really, I don't get what the fuss is about their tech support.  I'm
the only server admin here, and I've had to use Novell's tech support
six or eight times in the past almost three years.  About half the time
I get a tech who's obviously Indian with a pronounced accent.  I've yet
to come away feeling cheated.  Sure, I've had to ask them to repeat
themselves a few times, but they knew their stuff.   

-Matt
-- 

Matt Smith                Network Technology Specialist
Oconee County School System, Oconee County, Georgia
Office of Instruction and Technology       706-769-5685 x1314

From douglasbecker at cox.net  Tue Apr 21 14:02:08 2009
From: douglasbecker at cox.net (Douglas Becker)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:02:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Whither Novell?
Message-ID: <15084698.100424.1240318928383.JavaMail.douglasbecker@127.0.0.1>

Trust me guys, I the decision was totally up to me I would be upgrading 
to OES in a heartbeat.  I personally despise Windows.  However, I have 
programs that departments will not give up (when our accounting software 
stopped supporting Netware, my first reaction was to find another 
accounting package, the CFO insisted on a Windows server) and so I have 
to have some Windows servers here.  My problem is going to be convincing 
the powers that be to upgrade the remaining servers to OES instead of 
going with Windows.

Douglas Becker

douglasbecker at cox.net


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM , Matt Smith wrote:

>>>> On 4/20/2009 at 6:34 PM, in message
> <49ECA407020000ED0001145D at lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>, "Steve
> Utick"
> <sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us> wrote:
>> I'll second what Alan said.   I've just started putting in some OES2
> Linux
>> servers.   They have been rock solid from day one.
>>
>> They just run, like the NetWare that they replaced.   Yes, there were
> a few
>> quirky things that we had to solve in the migrations, but there was
> during
>> all of our prior NetWare migrations as well.
>>
>> I've replaced three of our servers so far.   Haven't touched them
> since we
>> put them in 1-2 months ago.
>>
>> I was a bit worried about the NSS speed, hearing what I had.   But,
> It's
>> BLAZINGLY fast compared to the NetWare it replaced.   Compression,
> salvage
>> and all.
>>
>> I like it, and will continue to replace NetWare with OES2 Linux.   I
>
>> maintain as little Windows here as possible.
>
> I'll "third" what Alan and Steve have both said.  I am honestly 
> bemused
> at all the fuss over "what do we do after netware."  OES Linux works
> great, and the transition is seamless from the end-user point of view. 
> I don't get as much Novell SWAG as I used to, but that doesn't mean 
> I'm
> doing to drop them as my preferred vendor for OS and stuff.  I do 
> wonder
> if Novell's got a particularly effective marketing strategy.
>
> And really, I don't get what the fuss is about their tech support. 
> I'm
> the only server admin here, and I've had to use Novell's tech support
> six or eight times in the past almost three years.  About half the 
> time
> I get a tech who's obviously Indian with a pronounced accent.  I've 
> yet
> to come away feeling cheated.  Sure, I've had to ask them to repeat
> themselves a few times, but they knew their stuff.
> -Matt
> -- 
>
> Matt Smith                Network Technology Specialist
> Oconee County School System, Oconee County, Georgia
> Office of Instruction and Technology       706-769-5685 x1314
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org  Tue Apr 21 14:04:06 2009
From: TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org (TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:04:06 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>
	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>
	<49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
Message-ID: <OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>

I'll fourth? what Alan said.  We are just starting our OES2 transition and
with the exception of some minor issues it has been solid once installed
and configured.  I do like when a sales person takes an interest in me as a
customer but to be honest we all know that the motivation is to sell us on
something.  The sales pitch, free lunch, here's a pen with our logo stuff
does nothing for me but if I pick up the phone and need to talk to my sales
rep and he doesn't get back to me then that would be a problem.

As for Novell's support, have you ever called M$ support, what a nightmare,
so what are we comparing them to?  I have paid a substantial amount in
maintenance for certain products (Syncsort and Lefthand come to mind) and
their support has been excellent but I would put Novell's support right up
there.  In fact i am about to open a case with them via their online SR
system and best of all when the tech is typing you don't have to worry
about the accent!

Just my 0.02

T2


                                                                           
             "Matt Smith"                                                  
             <mrsmith at oconee.k                                             
             12.ga.us>                                                  To 
             Sent by:                  "Novell LAN Interest Group"         
             novell-bounces at ne         <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>      
             tlab1.oucs.ox.ac.                                          cc 
             uk                                                            
                                                                   Subject 
                                       Re: Whither Novell?                 
             04/21/2009 08:22                                              
             AM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
                Novell LAN                                                 
              Interest Group                                               
             <novell at netlab1.o                                             
               ucs.ox.ac.uk>                                               
                                                                           
                                                                           




>>> On 4/20/2009 at 6:34 PM, in message
<49ECA407020000ED0001145D at lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>, "Steve
Utick"
<sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us> wrote:
> I'll second what Alan said.   I've just started putting in some OES2
Linux
> servers.   They have been rock solid from day one.
>
> They just run, like the NetWare that they replaced.   Yes, there were
a few
> quirky things that we had to solve in the migrations, but there was
during
> all of our prior NetWare migrations as well.
>
> I've replaced three of our servers so far.   Haven't touched them
since we
> put them in 1-2 months ago.
>
> I was a bit worried about the NSS speed, hearing what I had.   But,
It's
> BLAZINGLY fast compared to the NetWare it replaced.   Compression,
salvage
> and all.
>
> I like it, and will continue to replace NetWare with OES2 Linux.   I

> maintain as little Windows here as possible.

I'll "third" what Alan and Steve have both said.  I am honestly bemused
at all the fuss over "what do we do after netware."  OES Linux works
great, and the transition is seamless from the end-user point of view.
I don't get as much Novell SWAG as I used to, but that doesn't mean I'm
doing to drop them as my preferred vendor for OS and stuff.  I do wonder
if Novell's got a particularly effective marketing strategy.

And really, I don't get what the fuss is about their tech support.  I'm
the only server admin here, and I've had to use Novell's tech support
six or eight times in the past almost three years.  About half the time
I get a tech who's obviously Indian with a pronounced accent.  I've yet
to come away feeling cheated.  Sure, I've had to ask them to repeat
themselves a few times, but they knew their stuff.

-Matt
--

Matt Smith                Network Technology Specialist
Oconee County School System, Oconee County, Georgia
Office of Instruction and Technology       706-769-5685 x1314
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


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From Sami.Kapanen at hamk.fi  Tue Apr 21 14:11:57 2009
From: Sami.Kapanen at hamk.fi (Sami Kapanen)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:11:57 +0300
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>
	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>
	<49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us><49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
	<OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>
Message-ID: <49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi>

Hi,

We have started the NW65 -> OES2 road, there are still open issues (functions missing)  but we decided to give it a try and move on slowly.

My main worry is about Novell OES2 sales/marketshares..
if Netware has been small, and only part of those will migrate to OES2, how small will OES2 remain?
I just can't imagine a large amount new non-netware customers going to OES2.. how would people even know about OES2, it is pretty invisible, like most of Novell products.

-sk

>>> On 21.4.2009 at 16:04, <TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org> wrote:
> I'll fourth? what Alan said.  We are just starting our OES2 transition and
> with the exception of some minor issues it has been solid once installed
> and configured.  I do like when a sales person takes an interest in me as a
> customer but to be honest we all know that the motivation is to sell us on
> something.  The sales pitch, free lunch, here's a pen with our logo stuff
> does nothing for me but if I pick up the phone and need to talk to my sales
> rep and he doesn't get back to me then that would be a problem.
> 
> As for Novell's support, have you ever called M$ support, what a nightmare,
> so what are we comparing them to?  I have paid a substantial amount in
> maintenance for certain products (Syncsort and Lefthand come to mind) and
> their support has been excellent but I would put Novell's support right up
> there.  In fact i am about to open a case with them via their online SR
> system and best of all when the tech is typing you don't have to worry
> about the accent!
> 
> Just my 0.02
> 
> T2
> 
> 
>                                                                            
>              "Matt Smith"                                                  
>              <mrsmith at oconee.k                                             
>              12.ga.us>                                                  To 
>              Sent by:                  "Novell LAN Interest Group"         
>              novell-bounces at ne         <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>      
>              tlab1.oucs.ox.ac.                                          cc 
>              uk                                                            
>                                                                    Subject 
>                                        Re: Whither Novell?                 
>              04/21/2009 08:22                                              
>              AM                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>              Please respond to                                             
>                 Novell LAN                                                 
>               Interest Group                                               
>              <novell at netlab1.o                                             
>                ucs.ox.ac.uk>                                               
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> On 4/20/2009 at 6:34 PM, in message
> <49ECA407020000ED0001145D at lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>, "Steve
> Utick"
> <sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us> wrote:
>> I'll second what Alan said.   I've just started putting in some OES2
> Linux
>> servers.   They have been rock solid from day one.
>>
>> They just run, like the NetWare that they replaced.   Yes, there were
> a few
>> quirky things that we had to solve in the migrations, but there was
> during
>> all of our prior NetWare migrations as well.
>>
>> I've replaced three of our servers so far.   Haven't touched them
> since we
>> put them in 1-2 months ago.
>>
>> I was a bit worried about the NSS speed, hearing what I had.   But,
> It's
>> BLAZINGLY fast compared to the NetWare it replaced.   Compression,
> salvage
>> and all.
>>
>> I like it, and will continue to replace NetWare with OES2 Linux.   I
> 
>> maintain as little Windows here as possible.
> 
> I'll "third" what Alan and Steve have both said.  I am honestly bemused
> at all the fuss over "what do we do after netware."  OES Linux works
> great, and the transition is seamless from the end-user point of view.
> I don't get as much Novell SWAG as I used to, but that doesn't mean I'm
> doing to drop them as my preferred vendor for OS and stuff.  I do wonder
> if Novell's got a particularly effective marketing strategy.
> 
> And really, I don't get what the fuss is about their tech support.  I'm
> the only server admin here, and I've had to use Novell's tech support
> six or eight times in the past almost three years.  About half the time
> I get a tech who's obviously Indian with a pronounced accent.  I've yet
> to come away feeling cheated.  Sure, I've had to ask them to repeat
> themselves a few times, but they knew their stuff.
> 
> -Matt
> --
> 
> Matt Smith                Network Technology Specialist
> Oconee County School System, Oconee County, Georgia
> Office of Instruction and Technology       706-769-5685 x1314
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
> 
> 
> --
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 186584083) is spam:
> Spam:
> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=186584083&m=325656e5de9b&c=s 
> Not spam:
> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=186584083&m=325656e5de9b&c=n 
> Forget vote:
> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=186584083&m=325656e5de9b&c=f 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 



From jschutte at dordt.edu  Tue Apr 21 14:44:20 2009
From: jschutte at dordt.edu (Jeremiah Schutte)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:44:20 -0500
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <20090420222114.BB472711021@gray.dordt.edu>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu> <49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES>
	<20090420222114.BB472711021@gray.dordt.edu>
Message-ID: <20090421134423.F4004710D98@gray.dordt.edu>

I push out certs with certmgr.exe in zenworks.  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/e78byta0(VS.80).aspx
 


>>> On 4/20/2009 at 5:20 PM, Alan Pearson <alandpearson at yahoo.com> wrote:


On 20 Apr 2009, at 23:12, joea at j4computers.com wrote:

> You merely have to tell IE to trust the certs.  Unfortunately, that  
> has to be done at each PC.  I don't have the exact steps, but there  
> are TID's on how to do it.   I followed them and no longer have that  
> issue.

Is there any way this can be done via zenworks ?
That would be awesome.


Tnx
Alan

_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us  Tue Apr 21 14:46:39 2009
From: MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us (Michael Glenn)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:46:39 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>

Just a wee bit of marketing would be nice, if only to help me keep all the products straight, but where I agree with Bill is on the Tech Support part. That is what I think has finally pushed me over the edge. 

When the never-to-be-sufficiently-cursed bean-counters decided to "economize" by shipping TS off to a pack of undertrained mumblers on the other side of the planet, my ability to do my job was placed in serious jeopardy. One of my recent incidents (SR 10373089131) went on for TEN MONTHS, FIVE of which consisted of just trying to get someone to answer my correspondence, and if Shaun Price hadn't stepped in, I have no doubt I would *still* be on hold. I have a new incident running even as I write (SR 10483133001), and it's been eight days since I last heard from my little flowchart-follower in Mumbai. 

*This* is "Premium Support?"

Enough. I've had it. 



Regards;
         --------->Michael.
MCNE, CLP, BOFH

"Quoth the End User with a sneer and a taunt;
''Tis just what we asked for,
  but not what we want!'"


>>> Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> 04/20/2009 16:24 >>>
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 12:32 PM, jrd <jrd at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>      You are expressing opinions shared by many folks. Yet, I think there is
> something amiss on the client/customer side these days which may help in
> thinking through the situation.
>      It revolves about that often stated situation, as you write, "If a
> company doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to patronize them?" Can
> we see the problem here? I don't think we are buying social visits from
> vendor reps, as nice as such visits may be. We aren't necessarily patronizing a
> vendor as if bestowing favors and honors; I thought it was all about goods vs
> money.
> Do we really care what a vendor thinks of us personally, provided they don't
> tell others?

I think in sales speak we're dealing with something that used to be a
"delighter" having been moved to a "qualifier."  It used to be that
people were delighted by a good sales relationship.  Now we've come to
expect it for a company to qualify as a candidate.   I don't know
about you, but if I go to a restaurant and get exceptionally poor
service, it doesn't matter how good the food is, I'm not coming back.
Likewise with Novell, if they make it painful to deal with them, it
doesn't matter how good their products are, I'm not going to want to
use them.

A good case in point is Novell's Tech Support.  It used to be the
standard to which I held all other companies.  Now it's just an "also
ran."  The off-shoring of the support team with the attendant loss of
institutional memory, and culture has changed it from something I was
happy to deal with to something I dread.

Not having a go at Joe on this one,  but Novell has long had an
attitude of "our products are the best from a technical standpoint, so
everyone should beat a path to our door" and it just isn't going to
happen.  Being the best from a technical standpoint isn't enough to
win in the marketplace and I'm perpetually amazed by Novell's cultural
blindness to that fact.  The I.T. industry is littered with  the
corpses of products that were superior technology, but lost out to
other products that fit the market better.

Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of being the Novell champion and if
I hadn't spent the last 10 years getting this network changed from a
liability to an asset I would probably just say "Go ahead and move to
M$ file servers, and enjoy the pain that will cause."  But the fact of
the matter is, I have spent the last 10 years transforming this
network and I have too much invested to just chuck it all.  I think I
can convince the boss that moving to OES-L is the better course of
action, but if I do I don't think it will be because Novell helped me
with it, it will be because it'd be a lower labor cost option when
compared to moving terabytes of data to an entirely different server
OS.

Bill
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Michael Glenn.vcf
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From MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us  Tue Apr 21 15:00:46 2009
From: MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us (Michael Glenn)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:00:46 -0400
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <20090421134423.F4004710D98@gray.dordt.edu>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu> <49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES>
	<20090420222114.BB472711021@gray.dordt.edu>
	<20090421134423.F4004710D98@gray.dordt.edu>
Message-ID: <49ED994E.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>

Wow. You just solved a problem I spend a solid month on and finally fixed the hard way. 

....You rock anyway.
];)

>>> "Jeremiah Schutte" <jschutte at dordt.edu> 04/21/2009 09:44 >>>
I push out certs with certmgr.exe in zenworks.  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/e78byta0(VS.80).aspx 
 



From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Tue Apr 21 15:18:08 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Joe Doupnik)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:18:08 +0100
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>	<49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us><49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>	<OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>
	<49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi>
Message-ID: <49EDD5A0.1000505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Sami Kapanen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We have started the NW65 -> OES2 road, there are still open issues (functions missing)  but we decided to give it a try and move on slowly.
> 
> My main worry is about Novell OES2 sales/marketshares..
> if Netware has been small, and only part of those will migrate to OES2, how small will OES2 remain?
> I just can't imagine a large amount new non-netware customers going to OES2.. how would people even know about OES2, it is pretty invisible, like most of Novell products.
> 
> -sk
---------
	Perhaps you and others could indicate the serious missing functions. The
next service pack for OES2 is entering its beta phase and there is a chance, however
small, that a new feature could be added.
	As you your second point, we all agree that Novell practices stealth
marketing in public.
	Joe D.

From alandpearson at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 21 16:25:45 2009
From: alandpearson at yahoo.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:25:45 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <49ED994E.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu> <49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES>
	<20090420222114.BB472711021@gray.dordt.edu>
	<20090421134423.F4004710D98@gray.dordt.edu>
	<49ED994E.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
Message-ID: <19430.88.211.54.85.1240327545.squirrel@83.67.10.8>

At the risk of appearing stupid :

1) Where do I get certmgr.exe
2) do you have an example of how you push out a .der file for example into
a cert store on a users PC ?

Tnx !!!
Alan
-- 
AlanP

On Tue, April 21, 2009 3:00 pm, Michael Glenn wrote:
> Wow. You just solved a problem I spend a solid month on and finally fixed
> the hard way.
>
> ....You rock anyway.
> ];)
>
>>>> "Jeremiah Schutte" <jschutte at dordt.edu> 04/21/2009 09:44 >>>
> I push out certs with certmgr.exe in zenworks.
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/e78byta0(VS.80).aspx
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>



From jschutte at dordt.edu  Tue Apr 21 17:27:32 2009
From: jschutte at dordt.edu (Jeremiah Schutte)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:27:32 -0500
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <20090421152721.0424E710D98@gray.dordt.edu>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu> <49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES>
	<20090420222114.BB472711021@gray.dordt.edu>
	<20090421134423.F4004710D98@gray.dordt.edu>
	<49ED994E.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<20090421152721.0424E710D98@gray.dordt.edu>
Message-ID: <20090421162740.B9FF47111C0@gray.dordt.edu>

I use commands like:  
 
F:\Data\Zenworks\rootcert\certmgr.exe -add -all F:\Data\Zenworks\rootcert\unity.der -s -r localMachine root
 
I think I got it out of some windows xp toolkit and it looks like it comes with the .NET framework tools as well.
 
 


>>> On 4/21/2009 at 10:25 AM, "Alan Pearson" <alandpearson at yahoo.com> wrote:

At the risk of appearing stupid :

1) Where do I get certmgr.exe
2) do you have an example of how you push out a .der file for example into
a cert store on a users PC ?

Tnx !!!
Alan
-- 
AlanP

On Tue, April 21, 2009 3:00 pm, Michael Glenn wrote:
> Wow. You just solved a problem I spend a solid month on and finally fixed
> the hard way.
>
> ....You rock anyway.
> ];)
>
>>>> "Jeremiah Schutte" <jschutte at dordt.edu> 04/21/2009 09:44 >>>
> I push out certs with certmgr.exe in zenworks.
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/e78byta0(VS.80).aspx
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From dtran at ssc.ucla.edu  Tue Apr 21 17:34:00 2009
From: dtran at ssc.ucla.edu (Daniel Tran)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:34:00 -0700
Subject: Subordinate Certificate Authority?
In-Reply-To: <20090421162740.B9FF47111C0@gray.dordt.edu>
References: <mailman.472.1238190451.3591.novell@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk><49ECC35F.2080804@stmarys-ca.edu>
	<49ECBAF5020000850005FB8C@FS-LIN-OES><20090420222114.BB472711021@gray.dordt.edu><20090421134423.F4004710D98@gray.dordt.edu><49ED994E.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us><20090421152721.0424E710D98@gray.dordt.edu>
	<20090421162740.B9FF47111C0@gray.dordt.edu>
Message-ID: <D2A4CE9969F00C4DB94310BD8B1E203201D6852C@SSCBE.SS.ucla.edu>

Quote From MS site

CertMgr is available as part of the Windows SDK, which you can download
from http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=84091.



-----Original Message-----
From: novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
[mailto:novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jeremiah
Schutte
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:28 AM
To: Novell LAN Interest Group
Subject: Re: Subordinate Certificate Authority?

I use commands like:  
 
F:\Data\Zenworks\rootcert\certmgr.exe -add -all
F:\Data\Zenworks\rootcert\unity.der -s -r localMachine root
 
I think I got it out of some windows xp toolkit and it looks like it
comes with the .NET framework tools as well.
 
 


>>> On 4/21/2009 at 10:25 AM, "Alan Pearson" <alandpearson at yahoo.com>
wrote:

At the risk of appearing stupid :

1) Where do I get certmgr.exe
2) do you have an example of how you push out a .der file for example
into
a cert store on a users PC ?

Tnx !!!
Alan
-- 
AlanP

On Tue, April 21, 2009 3:00 pm, Michael Glenn wrote:
> Wow. You just solved a problem I spend a solid month on and finally
fixed
> the hard way.
>
> ....You rock anyway.
> ];)
>
>>>> "Jeremiah Schutte" <jschutte at dordt.edu> 04/21/2009 09:44 >>>
> I push out certs with certmgr.exe in zenworks.
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/e78byta0(VS.80).aspx
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From mrsmith at oconee.k12.ga.us  Tue Apr 21 18:43:51 2009
From: mrsmith at oconee.k12.ga.us (Matt Smith)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:43:51 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49EDD5A0.1000505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>	<49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us><49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>	<OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>
	<49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi><49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi>
	<49EDD5A0.1000505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49EDCD90.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>

>>> On 4/21/2009 at 10:18 AM, in message
<49EDD5A0.1000505 at oucs.ox.ac.uk>, Joe
Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> 	As you your second point, we all agree that Novell practices
stealth
> marketing in public.
> 	Joe D.


I do hate that Novell seems to have given up completely on the small
business market. 

-Matt
-- 

Matt Smith                Network Technology Specialist
Oconee County School System, Oconee County, Georgia
Office of Instruction and Technology       706-769-5685 x1314

From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Tue Apr 21 19:01:02 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (jrd)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:01:02 +0100
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49EDCD90.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>	<49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us><49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>	<OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>	<49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi><49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi>	<49EDD5A0.1000505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49EDCD90.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
Message-ID: <49EE09DE.6010003@oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Matt Smith wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2009 at 10:18 AM, in message
> <49EDD5A0.1000505 at oucs.ox.ac.uk>, Joe
> Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 	As you your second point, we all agree that Novell practices
> stealth
>> marketing in public.
>> 	Joe D.
> 
> 
> I do hate that Novell seems to have given up completely on the small
> business market. 
> 
> -Matt
-----------
	Me too. Oh dear, my advice is to send Me2's point to point, but
shhh, never mind.
	I think the plan was to have Partners pick up the slack and
do the door knocking. Like other plans, it works better on paper than
in the field. Couple this with Novell's inherent reluctance to beat
their own drum in public, bad form, and we have a vacuum to fill. We
have always had that particular vacuum, but now we have lost the
periodic visits by reps.
	I think, just my opinion, the company could do lots better
explaining their products in interesting and productive ways, on the
web and at selected major events. They do a superb job in smaller
meetings where the design and management teams can present. There is
another of these occurring next week in Bergamo, Italy, as the EMEA
version of the TTP group. http://www.mindworksuk.com/ for details.
The larger US version of the TTP group typically meets in Provo near
the end of July, and you can imagine the mixing with company folks.
These particular meetings are under NDA and are for TTP members only.
	In these straightened times I can't fault the company for
ranking customer sizes and spending accordingly. But guys, let's
do a better job on the web pages and similar.
	Joe D.


From geoffreycarman at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 19:14:28 2009
From: geoffreycarman at gmail.com (Geoffrey Carman)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:14:28 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49EE09DE.6010003@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>
	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>
	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>
	<49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
	<OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>
	<49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi> <49EDD5A0.1000505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<49EDCD90.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
	<49EE09DE.6010003@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <993788ac0904211114we97a688hdcf811e9129ee001@mail.gmail.com>

I happen to work at a Partner, in NYC region.

If you are a Novell customer in that region, and not getting good
touchy feelies by Novell, I can get one our sales people to get in
touch with you.  (They are always looking to help out clients.  Ok, I
lied, they want to make sales, but to do that, they need to please you
first...  (In a nice, non-naughty way)).

I have been working remote for clients lately, and spending a lot of
time in the office, and I can say a couple of things:

1) Novell sales people exist!  Really!  I have seen them!  I should
get some pictures of them on my BB!!

2) Novell DOES push sales channel stuff.  They have given us LOTS of
contacts that our company has reached out to, and made connections
with.  Lots of contacts.  Working very well for us, as a partner.
Enough to keep about 10 people busy all day.

3) Within this region, we can certainly help you a lot.  Outside our
region we have less pull.


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:01 PM, jrd <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Matt Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/21/2009 at 10:18 AM, in message
>>
>> <49EDD5A0.1000505 at oucs.ox.ac.uk>, Joe
>> Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? ? ? ?As you your second point, we all agree that Novell practices
>>
>> stealth
>>>
>>> marketing in public.
>>> ? ? ? ?Joe D.
>>
>>
>> I do hate that Novell seems to have given up completely on the small
>> business market.
>> -Matt
>
> -----------
> ? ? ? ?Me too. Oh dear, my advice is to send Me2's point to point, but
> shhh, never mind.
> ? ? ? ?I think the plan was to have Partners pick up the slack and
> do the door knocking. Like other plans, it works better on paper than
> in the field. Couple this with Novell's inherent reluctance to beat
> their own drum in public, bad form, and we have a vacuum to fill. We
> have always had that particular vacuum, but now we have lost the
> periodic visits by reps.
> ? ? ? ?I think, just my opinion, the company could do lots better
> explaining their products in interesting and productive ways, on the
> web and at selected major events. They do a superb job in smaller
> meetings where the design and management teams can present. There is
> another of these occurring next week in Bergamo, Italy, as the EMEA
> version of the TTP group. http://www.mindworksuk.com/ for details.
> The larger US version of the TTP group typically meets in Provo near
> the end of July, and you can imagine the mixing with company folks.
> These particular meetings are under NDA and are for TTP members only.
> ? ? ? ?In these straightened times I can't fault the company for
> ranking customer sizes and spending accordingly. But guys, let's
> do a better job on the web pages and similar.
> ? ? ? ?Joe D.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>



-- 
Geoffrey Carman
geoffreycarman at gmail.com

From mary.jean.chmielewski at aurora.org  Tue Apr 21 19:23:09 2009
From: mary.jean.chmielewski at aurora.org (mary.jean.chmielewski at aurora.org)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:23:09 -0500
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <993788ac0904211114we97a688hdcf811e9129ee001@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFC3825945.F6754791-ON8625759F.0064E950-8625759F.00653357@aurora.org>



Sadly my company started the transition to "ThatWhichCannotBeNamed" a year
ago with the planning starting over 2 years ago.  I'm now a PM rather than
an eDirectory Architect/Administrator.  We were told the changes were not
based on > technology rather, long-term viability and market share.  Oh and
we have to use SCCM too.  QQ

I wish you all luck.  I tried all I could but sadly the forces of evil >
all.


novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk wrote on 04/21/2009 01:14:28 PM:

> I happen to work at a Partner, in NYC region.
>
> If you are a Novell customer in that region, and not getting good
> touchy feelies by Novell, I can get one our sales people to get in
> touch with you.  (They are always looking to help out clients.  Ok, I
> lied, they want to make sales, but to do that, they need to please you
> first...  (In a nice, non-naughty way)).
>
> I have been working remote for clients lately, and spending a lot of
> time in the office, and I can say a couple of things:
>
> 1) Novell sales people exist!  Really!  I have seen them!  I should
> get some pictures of them on my BB!!
>
> 2) Novell DOES push sales channel stuff.  They have given us LOTS of
> contacts that our company has reached out to, and made connections
> with.  Lots of contacts.  Working very well for us, as a partner.
> Enough to keep about 10 people busy all day.
>
> 3) Within this region, we can certainly help you a lot.  Outside our
> region we have less pull.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:01 PM, jrd <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Matt Smith wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4/21/2009 at 10:18 AM, in message
> >>
> >> <49EDD5A0.1000505 at oucs.ox.ac.uk>, Joe
> >> Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ? ? ? ?As you your second point, we all agree that Novell practices
> >>
> >> stealth
> >>>
> >>> marketing in public.
> >>> ? ? ? ?Joe D.
> >>
> >>
> >> I do hate that Novell seems to have given up completely on the small
> >> business market.
> >> -Matt
> >
> > -----------
> > ? ? ? ?Me too. Oh dear, my advice is to send Me2's point to point, but
> > shhh, never mind.
> > ? ? ? ?I think the plan was to have Partners pick up the slack and
> > do the door knocking. Like other plans, it works better on paper than
> > in the field. Couple this with Novell's inherent reluctance to beat
> > their own drum in public, bad form, and we have a vacuum to fill. We
> > have always had that particular vacuum, but now we have lost the
> > periodic visits by reps.
> > ? ? ? ?I think, just my opinion, the company could do lots better
> > explaining their products in interesting and productive ways, on the
> > web and at selected major events. They do a superb job in smaller
> > meetings where the design and management teams can present. There is
> > another of these occurring next week in Bergamo, Italy, as the EMEA
> > version of the TTP group. http://www.mindworksuk.com/ for details.
> > The larger US version of the TTP group typically meets in Provo near
> > the end of July, and you can imagine the mixing with company folks.
> > These particular meetings are under NDA and are for TTP members only.
> > ? ? ? ?In these straightened times I can't fault the company for
> > ranking customer sizes and spending accordingly. But guys, let's
> > do a better job on the web pages and similar.
> > ? ? ? ?Joe D.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Novell mailing list
> > Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> > http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Geoffrey Carman
> geoffreycarman at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From smf34 at cam.ac.uk  Tue Apr 21 20:20:02 2009
From: smf34 at cam.ac.uk (Simon Flood)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:20:02 +0100
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49EE09DE.6010003@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ECBBB7020000850005FB90@FS-LIN-OES>	<6B78DA2F-3207-458D-8D1C-AE97191825DD@yahoo.com>	<49ECA407020000ED0001145D@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>	<49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us><49ED821C.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>	<OF6AD5FC3D.41D0609F-ON8525759F.004710BA-8525759F.0047C9BE@lancaster.wnyric.org>	<49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi><49EDF0B6.3689.004E.0@hamk.fi>	<49EDD5A0.1000505@oucs.ox.ac.uk>	<49EDCD90.E4C1.0068.0@oconee.k12.ga.us>
	<49EE09DE.6010003@oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49EE1C62.6000000@cam.ac.uk>

On 21/04/2009 19:01, jrd wrote:

>     I think, just my opinion, the company could do lots better
> explaining their products in interesting and productive ways, on the
> web and at selected major events. They do a superb job in smaller
> meetings where the design and management teams can present. There is
> another of these occurring next week in Bergamo, Italy, as the EMEA
> version of the TTP group. http://www.mindworksuk.com/ for details.
> The larger US version of the TTP group typically meets in Provo near
> the end of July, and you can imagine the mixing with company folks.
> These particular meetings are under NDA and are for TTP members only.

It's probably worth noting (to save the TTP co-ordinator a glut of 
invalid registrations!) that the TTP group is for academic institutions 
only.

Simon

From twessels at wildblue.net  Tue Apr 21 22:40:17 2009
From: twessels at wildblue.net (Timothy Wessels)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:40:17 -0400
Subject: Wither Novell indeed...
Message-ID: <8fd39f090904211440n59b63ccdveebe220a3e6805a6@mail.gmail.com>

Having worked for Novell resellers since 1985 I've seen many changes in
Novell and in their channel program.  In the past there were numerous in
person customer and reseller partner events at Novell offices.  Today most
of these events are gone except for the occasional Novell "road show" coming
to a city near you.  Forget even knowing who your "Novell rep" is today.
With the roughly 5000 employees Novell has to run its business around the
world, it is understandable that the "high touch" sales call has given way
to Internet Webinar events with Novell call center follow-ups to our
downloads and inquiries.

It is a different world today but you can do things to improve your contact
with Novell.  If you have a Novell NUI chapter in your area then plan to
attend the meetings.  Novell "took control" of NUI in the fall of 2007.  The
NUI chapter I attend in the Boston area can call on Novell for speakers and
meeting support.  You can also volunteer your time to work on a Novell
closed beta of a product you are interested in working with or are already
using.  This is an excellent way to get in touch with Novell engineers who
will be attending conference calls and handing your service requests related
to the private beta.  OES2 SP2 is just starting its closed beta cycle and I
expect to learn a lot about what is going into OES2 SP2 by participating.

I know it is hard for NetWare experts to let go of NetWare.  It became the
quirky NOS we all grew to love over the years.  And as NetWare fades into
computing history we can all thank people like Joe D. who have helped us
gain an appreciation for what a unique and ground-breaking product NetWare
truly was.  In making my transition from NetWare to SLES and OES on SLES it
is painfully clear to me that you MUST become a Linux pro to succeed.
Because when the installation scripts and migration utilities leave with you
a partially working SLES OES box you have to know how to "open the hood" and
find out what is wrong.  So if you are on the NetWare vs. Windows fence
think real hard about which side you want to come down on.  With SLES you
will have to work hard to learn it and it will take time.  Compound the
effort by adding OES into the mixture.

tim

-- 
Tim Wessels
Tim Wessels and Associates
182 Sunridge Road
Rindge, NH  03461
www.timwessels.com
978.413.0201

From cimetmc at myrealbox.com  Wed Apr 22 16:24:13 2009
From: cimetmc at myrealbox.com (Marcel Cox)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:24:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Whither Novell?
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gsncqt$etp$1@ger.gmane.org>

I'm from Luxembourg in Europe, and I must say that we are here in the very 
lucky situation that we have a local Novell office that is run on a 
franchise bases. This is the best thing that could happen to us because 
the people in the Novell office work for their own packet and as such are 
very motivated. We are in regular contact, we get customized presentations 
of new products from time to time some events presenting various products 
to the public are organized. If I look at the Novell partner list for 
Luxembourg, I can tell you that without local Novell office, Novell would 
be completely dead here because none of the important computer integrators 
are among the partners and one of the 3 partners listed doesn't even show 
Novell as a company they work with on their web site (they are however 
happy to claim to be a Microsoft partner).
I donm't know how the situation is in other countries, but I can imagine 
that in cases where the scenario is similar to ours, closing Novell 
officies is the deadliest thing Novell can do.

Marcel


From cmangiarelli at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 14:31:48 2009
From: cmangiarelli at gmail.com (Christopher Mangiarelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:31:48 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
Message-ID: <f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>

Shaun Price is an awesome engineer.  He's helped me on more than one
occasion.  Then again, most of the engineers in Utah are pretty damn good.
India isn't bad for first level support, but what irks me is the amount of
time it takes for them to transition a major problem to the backline
engineers.  They are probably evaluated by the amount of calls they can
solve without a hand-off, but as a customer I could care less who gets
credit for solving my problem, I just want it solved as quickly as possible.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Michael Glenn <MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us>wrote:

> Just a wee bit of marketing would be nice, if only to help me keep all the
> products straight, but where I agree with Bill is on the Tech Support part.
> That is what I think has finally pushed me over the edge.
>
> When the never-to-be-sufficiently-cursed bean-counters decided to
> "economize" by shipping TS off to a pack of undertrained mumblers on the
> other side of the planet, my ability to do my job was placed in serious
> jeopardy. One of my recent incidents (SR 10373089131) went on for TEN
> MONTHS, FIVE of which consisted of just trying to get someone to answer my
> correspondence, and if Shaun Price hadn't stepped in, I have no doubt I
> would *still* be on hold. I have a new incident running even as I write (SR
> 10483133001), and it's been eight days since I last heard from my little
> flowchart-follower in Mumbai.
>
> *This* is "Premium Support?"
>
> Enough. I've had it.
>
> Regards;
>         --------->Michael.
> MCNE, CLP, BOFH
>

-- 
Christopher Mangiarelli
cmangiarelli at gmail.com

From geoffreycarman at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 14:38:49 2009
From: geoffreycarman at gmail.com (Geoffrey Carman)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:38:49 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com>

You have to be fair and let them try to solve it from Bangalore, but
once they have taken a swing, and you are not happy.  Ask to be
escalated.  If they refuse.  Ask to speak to their manager.  Keep
asking until they do it.  Don't wait.

You are in charge of your incident, and you can control it.  Make it
clear you will continue to be a PITA until they do it, and usually
they can justify it to their boss why it was done, since YOU were
being unreasonable.  (They cannot fire YOU!)

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Christopher Mangiarelli
<cmangiarelli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Shaun Price is an awesome engineer. ?He's helped me on more than one
> occasion. ?Then again, most of the engineers in Utah are pretty damn good.
> India isn't bad for first level support, but what irks me is the amount of
> time it takes for them to transition a major problem to the backline
> engineers. ?They are probably evaluated by the amount of calls they can
> solve without a hand-off, but as a customer I could care less who gets
> credit for solving my problem, I just want it solved as quickly as possible.
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Michael Glenn <MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us>wrote:
>
>> Just a wee bit of marketing would be nice, if only to help me keep all the
>> products straight, but where I agree with Bill is on the Tech Support part.
>> That is what I think has finally pushed me over the edge.
>>
>> When the never-to-be-sufficiently-cursed bean-counters decided to
>> "economize" by shipping TS off to a pack of undertrained mumblers on the
>> other side of the planet, my ability to do my job was placed in serious
>> jeopardy. One of my recent incidents (SR 10373089131) went on for TEN
>> MONTHS, FIVE of which consisted of just trying to get someone to answer my
>> correspondence, and if Shaun Price hadn't stepped in, I have no doubt I
>> would *still* be on hold. I have a new incident running even as I write (SR
>> 10483133001), and it's been eight days since I last heard from my little
>> flowchart-follower in Mumbai.
>>
>> *This* is "Premium Support?"
>>
>> Enough. I've had it.
>>
>> Regards;
>> ? ? ? ? --------->Michael.
>> MCNE, CLP, BOFH
>>
>
> --
> Christopher Mangiarelli
> cmangiarelli at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>



-- 
Geoffrey Carman
geoffreycarman at gmail.com

From aldo at omni-ts.com  Thu Apr 23 17:51:46 2009
From: aldo at omni-ts.com (Aldo Zanoni)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:51:46 -0600
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49E90860020000BB000578C3@mail2.nds8.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E90860020000BB000578C3@mail2.nds8.com>
Message-ID: <49F04842020000A800087012@mail.omni-ts.com>

I know this is a network list, but I have to admit I really like this latest promotion from Novell for GroupWise.  It will be interesting to see if this puts some wind in the Novell sail that can carry over to the OS and the other Novell offerings.
 
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/7715/groupwise-trade-promotion 
 
The upgrade promotion gets more interesting when combined with the recently announced "Migrate to GroupWise Tour":
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/7162/migrate-groupwise-8-event-series 
 
Now, if only people outside the GroupWise and Novell communities could find out about these!  :-)
 
Best regards,
 
 
Aldo
 
--
Aldo Zanoni
CEO, Managing Director
Omni Technology Solutions Inc.
The Integration Company
aldo at omni-ts.com 
www.omni-ts.com 



>>> "Tim Heywood" <tim at nds8.co.uk> 2009/04/17 3:53 PM >>>
I know  that a lot of places that have the same dilemma as you, and the
folk on this list have heard this from me before however, it is worth
saying again:  Where is Windows going?

I posed this question to two large Scottish financial institutions (one
who pays MS $50m a year and has been in the papers rather a lot...)
working through the official MS statements and then priming both of them
with the right questions to ask.  A "Senior" member of the windows
server team came over from Redmond to see both companies - and could not
satisfy either as to a road map - NDA or no NDA there was no road map
beyond 2008R2   -  You get Azure and the M$ data centre or you are left
in the cold.

At least with Linux you have a road map and a development stream.  

We have a client (Non Federal Government) in Scotland that we put onto
an OES1 cluster a couple of years ago now - they had problems with more
than 4000 users connected to a single node.  As problem go it's not a
bad one but it did draw a lot of flack: We solved that easily and their
record is 6270 users connect to one OES (SLES9) Linux node in a cluster.
  This same client will be deploying OES2 this summer with conviction
that done right and with the right planning Linux and OES2 works very
well.  

You folk all remember NW4.10, indeed a lot of you started with 4.0
(fools...) Back then we used to spend the time planning and as a result
the ROI really paid off.  If you blindly throw machines at a network (or
put heavily used GW systems in a VM environment) then you pay the price,
but is it the software's fault or is it the lack of forethought and
planning?

You all know me, I am red (turning rather green...) through and through
- but for the last 12 months I actually feel like I have a future ;-/ 
Now, if only we can start a Novell marketing department!

T


-- 

Tim Heywood
NDS8
Novell Platinum Solution Provider

Office:  +44 (0) 131 538 8202
Mobile:  +44 (0) 7974 134264








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From dmoon at peru.k12.in.us  Thu Apr 23 21:50:39 2009
From: dmoon at peru.k12.in.us (Dave Moon)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:50:39 -0400
Subject: [BULK]  Re: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>
	<993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us>

I actually had to use Bangalore for a crashed server one night.  My issue was not in what the guy knew but the fact that it took three times longer just so we understood each other.  He never caught on to the fact that I have been around novell 25 years.  I just need help through my nds issue.   If I could have talked to the states I would have been done in about 3-4 hours instead of 12.

Other than that they were great help.

dave

Dave Moon A+
Peru Community Schools
401 N. Broadway
Peru, IN 46970
765-473-3081
fax 765-472-5129


>>> Geoffrey Carman <geoffreycarman at gmail.com> 4/23/2009 9:38 AM >>>
You have to be fair and let them try to solve it from Bangalore, but
once they have taken a swing, and you are not happy.  Ask to be
escalated.  If they refuse.  Ask to speak to their manager.  Keep
asking until they do it.  Don't wait.

You are in charge of your incident, and you can control it.  Make it
clear you will continue to be a PITA until they do it, and usually
they can justify it to their boss why it was done, since YOU were
being unreasonable.  (They cannot fire YOU!)

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Christopher Mangiarelli
<cmangiarelli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Shaun Price is an awesome engineer.  He's helped me on more than one
> occasion.  Then again, most of the engineers in Utah are pretty damn good.
> India isn't bad for first level support, but what irks me is the amount of
> time it takes for them to transition a major problem to the backline
> engineers.  They are probably evaluated by the amount of calls they can
> solve without a hand-off, but as a customer I could care less who gets
> credit for solving my problem, I just want it solved as quickly as possible.
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Michael Glenn <MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us>wrote:
>
>> Just a wee bit of marketing would be nice, if only to help me keep all the
>> products straight, but where I agree with Bill is on the Tech Support part.
>> That is what I think has finally pushed me over the edge.
>>
>> When the never-to-be-sufficiently-cursed bean-counters decided to
>> "economize" by shipping TS off to a pack of undertrained mumblers on the
>> other side of the planet, my ability to do my job was placed in serious
>> jeopardy. One of my recent incidents (SR 10373089131) went on for TEN
>> MONTHS, FIVE of which consisted of just trying to get someone to answer my
>> correspondence, and if Shaun Price hadn't stepped in, I have no doubt I
>> would *still* be on hold. I have a new incident running even as I write (SR
>> 10483133001), and it's been eight days since I last heard from my little
>> flowchart-follower in Mumbai.
>>
>> *This* is "Premium Support?"
>>
>> Enough. I've had it.
>>
>> Regards;
>>         --------->Michael.
>> MCNE, CLP, BOFH
>>
>
> --
> Christopher Mangiarelli
> cmangiarelli at gmail.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
>



-- 
Geoffrey Carman
geoffreycarman at gmail.com 
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From bbrush at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 22:41:06 2009
From: bbrush at gmail.com (Bill Brush)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:41:06 -0500
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
Message-ID: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>

Since my question touched off a minor (and somewhat cathartic) threadnought,
I thought I'd start a new one to give the rest of the story.

We had our strategic direction meeting yesterday and with many thanks to
this group and the discussion in the "Whither Novell?" thread I was able to
enter into it with a clear understanding of my own mind.

I think the expectation among my peers was that we were going to spend our
time discussing staying on Netware vs. moving to Windows.  I surprised them
and seized the advantage by coming out immediately with an acknowledgment
that Netware is not a viable long term solution and it will be better for us
to plot our course now when it's not an emergency rather than wait until we
hit the reefs.  So I changed the parameters of the discussion from "Netware
vs. Windows" to "OES-L vs. Windows vs. 3rd option."  I don't think they were
quite ready for that and it allowed me to work from a position of strength
even though I'm just one old codger.  Age and treachery and all that.  :-)

Anyway I was able to get them to agree that the path of least resistance and
least work would be to start adding in Linux nodes to the cluster, then
dropping out the Netware nodes.  For hardware cost savings it is desirable
to have the Linux nodes be virtualized (VMware Virtual Infrastructure, soon
to be Vsphere)  but I have to investigate whether a mixed physical/virtual
cluster is even supportable, not to mention a fully virtual cluster.  I
don't necessarily like the idea of the added complexity of a cluster on top
of virtual hardware, but virtualizing has other benefits so I'm willing to
go that route.

We still have concerns about Novell's viability since they seem to be
floundering from a strategic standpoint, but we've been flying solo for the
last several years so it's nothing new. I hope they can change that because
I'm tired fo the perpetual SNAFU that has been symptomatic of Novell's
customer relationship for the last decade.

So anyway, I'll be adding some OES2 SP(x) nodes to my cluster. My intention
is to hold off until sp2 is out of beta and do testing between now and then
on sp1.

Anyone have some sage advice about this whole plan?

Bill

From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Thu Apr 23 22:56:17 2009
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:56:17 -0400
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F0ABC1020000750004BB76@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

Sounds like a very viable plan.
I don't know what your migration schedule is, but I have a couple of sites running clustered OES2SP1, and they have been running quite well.
SP2 just went into closed beta, so it will be several months before it is available.
-jt
 
 

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
678-697-9420
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
http://www.eastcobbgroup.com




>>> Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> 4/23/2009 05:41 PM >>> 
Since my question touched off a minor (and somewhat cathartic) threadnought,
I thought I'd start a new one to give the rest of the story.

We had our strategic direction meeting yesterday and with many thanks to
this group and the discussion in the "Whither Novell?" thread I was able to
enter into it with a clear understanding of my own mind.

I think the expectation among my peers was that we were going to spend our
time discussing staying on Netware vs. moving to Windows.  I surprised them
and seized the advantage by coming out immediately with an acknowledgment
that Netware is not a viable long term solution and it will be better for us
to plot our course now when it's not an emergency rather than wait until we
hit the reefs.  So I changed the parameters of the discussion from "Netware
vs. Windows" to "OES-L vs. Windows vs. 3rd option."  I don't think they were
quite ready for that and it allowed me to work from a position of strength
even though I'm just one old codger.  Age and treachery and all that.  :-)

Anyway I was able to get them to agree that the path of least resistance and
least work would be to start adding in Linux nodes to the cluster, then
dropping out the Netware nodes.  For hardware cost savings it is desirable
to have the Linux nodes be virtualized (VMware Virtual Infrastructure, soon
to be Vsphere)  but I have to investigate whether a mixed physical/virtual
cluster is even supportable, not to mention a fully virtual cluster.  I
don't necessarily like the idea of the added complexity of a cluster on top
of virtual hardware, but virtualizing has other benefits so I'm willing to
go that route.

We still have concerns about Novell's viability since they seem to be
floundering from a strategic standpoint, but we've been flying solo for the
last several years so it's nothing new. I hope they can change that because
I'm tired fo the perpetual SNAFU that has been symptomatic of Novell's
customer relationship for the last decade.

So anyway, I'll be adding some OES2 SP(x) nodes to my cluster. My intention
is to hold off until sp2 is out of beta and do testing between now and then
on sp1.

Anyone have some sage advice about this whole plan?

Bill
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell



From bbrush at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 22:58:43 2009
From: bbrush at gmail.com (Bill Brush)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:58:43 -0500
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
In-Reply-To: <49F0ABC1020000750004BB76@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0ABC1020000750004BB76@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
Message-ID: <167f4090904231458o46f8f75cja609379d06155bbc@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:56 PM, James Taylor
<James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a very viable plan.
> I don't know what your migration schedule is, but I have a couple of sites running clustered OES2SP1, and they have been running quite well.
> SP2 just went into closed beta, so it will be several months before it is available.
> -jt
>
>

In discussion we've been operating under the assumption that we can
get another year out of Netware without a problem.

Bill

From larry at ladyburd.com  Fri Apr 24 00:17:42 2009
From: larry at ladyburd.com (Larry Burd)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:17:42 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell
Message-ID: <867a0881126a449db6c37fd1af4fb9ad@ladyburd.com>

  Whither Novell
------------------------------

I must admit, we deployed our first 2008 SBS server, and I like it.   I'm going to school next week, so I know how to use this thing called AD.  Most of it I am figuring out on my own.
I just see no future in Novell.   
For now, I have (2)  5.1 servers, and a newbie SBS server.

I'm sure eventually the 5.1 servers will die off, and we'll be solo MS.  It's just a matter of time.   I'm just waiting for the Dot Matrix printers to die first :)

I hear I am the last Novell shop on Long Island.

Larry

From lholling at microvell.com.au  Fri Apr 24 00:42:44 2009
From: lholling at microvell.com.au (Leonard Holling)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:42:44 +0800
Subject: [BULK]  Re: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>	<f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>	<993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us>
Message-ID: <49F0FCF4.2090502@microvell.com.au>

Hi Dave

We were told that the best way to skip India is to just say that you do 
not understand them and they have to put you through to the US or Europe.

Leonard...

On 24/04/2009 4:50 AM, Dave Moon wrote:
> I actually had to use Bangalore for a crashed server one night.  My issue was not in what the guy knew but the fact that it took three times longer just so we understood each other.  He never caught on to the fact that I have been around novell 25 years.  I just need help through my nds issue.   If I could have talked to the states I would have been done in about 3-4 hours instead of 12.
>
> Other than that they were great help.
>
> dave
>
> Dave Moon A+
> Peru Community Schools
> 401 N. Broadway
> Peru, IN 46970
> 765-473-3081
> fax 765-472-5129
>
>
>    
>>>> Geoffrey Carman<geoffreycarman at gmail.com>  4/23/2009 9:38 AM>>>
>>>>          
> You have to be fair and let them try to solve it from Bangalore, but
> once they have taken a swing, and you are not happy.  Ask to be
> escalated.  If they refuse.  Ask to speak to their manager.  Keep
> asking until they do it.  Don't wait.
>
> You are in charge of your incident, and you can control it.  Make it
> clear you will continue to be a PITA until they do it, and usually
> they can justify it to their boss why it was done, since YOU were
> being unreasonable.  (They cannot fire YOU!)
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Christopher Mangiarelli
> <cmangiarelli at gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Shaun Price is an awesome engineer.  He's helped me on more than one
>> occasion.  Then again, most of the engineers in Utah are pretty damn good.
>> India isn't bad for first level support, but what irks me is the amount of
>> time it takes for them to transition a major problem to the backline
>> engineers.  They are probably evaluated by the amount of calls they can
>> solve without a hand-off, but as a customer I could care less who gets
>> credit for solving my problem, I just want it solved as quickly as possible.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Michael Glenn<MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us>wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> Just a wee bit of marketing would be nice, if only to help me keep all the
>>> products straight, but where I agree with Bill is on the Tech Support part.
>>> That is what I think has finally pushed me over the edge.
>>>
>>> When the never-to-be-sufficiently-cursed bean-counters decided to
>>> "economize" by shipping TS off to a pack of undertrained mumblers on the
>>> other side of the planet, my ability to do my job was placed in serious
>>> jeopardy. One of my recent incidents (SR 10373089131) went on for TEN
>>> MONTHS, FIVE of which consisted of just trying to get someone to answer my
>>> correspondence, and if Shaun Price hadn't stepped in, I have no doubt I
>>> would *still* be on hold. I have a new incident running even as I write (SR
>>> 10483133001), and it's been eight days since I last heard from my little
>>> flowchart-follower in Mumbai.
>>>
>>> *This* is "Premium Support?"
>>>
>>> Enough. I've had it.
>>>
>>> Regards;
>>>          --------->Michael.
>>> MCNE, CLP, BOFH
>>>
>>>        
>> --
>> Christopher Mangiarelli
>> cmangiarelli at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>>
>>      
>
>
>
>    

-- 
____________________________________________________________________
Leonard Holling         Email:<mailto:lholling at microvell.com.au>
Systems Engineer
Microvell Consulting Pty Ltd


From TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org  Fri Apr 24 14:39:58 2009
From: TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org (TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:39:58 -0400
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF59B9996E.CC84D197-ON852575A2.004AD57A-852575A2.004B12B8@lancaster.wnyric.org>

Bill,

We will be implementing a virtual SLES10SP2/OES2SP1 cluster on Citrix
XenServer using a Lefthand iSCSI SAN.  We have had decent throughput with
hosting the NSS volumes on iSCSI and using the iSCSI initiators on the VMs
to access.

Anyway, I would be glad to post back any gotchas we encounter either
on-list or off.

T2


                                                                           
             Bill Brush                                                    
             <bbrush at gmail.com                                             
             >                                                          To 
             Sent by:                  Novell LAN Interest Group           
             novell-bounces at ne         <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>      
             tlab1.oucs.ox.ac.                                          cc 
             uk                                                            
                                                                   Subject 
                                       Whither Bill? The rest of the story 
             04/23/2009 05:41                                              
             PM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
                Novell LAN                                                 
              Interest Group                                               
             <novell at netlab1.o                                             
               ucs.ox.ac.uk>                                               
                                                                           
                                                                           




Since my question touched off a minor (and somewhat cathartic)
threadnought,
I thought I'd start a new one to give the rest of the story.

We had our strategic direction meeting yesterday and with many thanks to
this group and the discussion in the "Whither Novell?" thread I was able to
enter into it with a clear understanding of my own mind.

I think the expectation among my peers was that we were going to spend our
time discussing staying on Netware vs. moving to Windows.  I surprised them
and seized the advantage by coming out immediately with an acknowledgment
that Netware is not a viable long term solution and it will be better for
us
to plot our course now when it's not an emergency rather than wait until we
hit the reefs.  So I changed the parameters of the discussion from "Netware
vs. Windows" to "OES-L vs. Windows vs. 3rd option."  I don't think they
were
quite ready for that and it allowed me to work from a position of strength
even though I'm just one old codger.  Age and treachery and all that.  :-)

Anyway I was able to get them to agree that the path of least resistance
and
least work would be to start adding in Linux nodes to the cluster, then
dropping out the Netware nodes.  For hardware cost savings it is desirable
to have the Linux nodes be virtualized (VMware Virtual Infrastructure, soon
to be Vsphere)  but I have to investigate whether a mixed physical/virtual
cluster is even supportable, not to mention a fully virtual cluster.  I
don't necessarily like the idea of the added complexity of a cluster on top
of virtual hardware, but virtualizing has other benefits so I'm willing to
go that route.

We still have concerns about Novell's viability since they seem to be
floundering from a strategic standpoint, but we've been flying solo for the
last several years so it's nothing new. I hope they can change that because
I'm tired fo the perpetual SNAFU that has been symptomatic of Novell's
customer relationship for the last decade.

So anyway, I'll be adding some OES2 SP(x) nodes to my cluster. My intention
is to hold off until sp2 is out of beta and do testing between now and then
on sp1.

Anyone have some sage advice about this whole plan?

Bill
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


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From TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org  Fri Apr 24 14:41:22 2009
From: TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org (TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:41:22 -0400
Subject: [BULK]  Re: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <49F0FCF4.2090502@microvell.com.au>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us>
	<f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>	<993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us>
	<49F0FCF4.2090502@microvell.com.au>
Message-ID: <OF641BA01F.2326A280-ON852575A2.004B1422-852575A2.004B33B2@lancaster.wnyric.org>

FWIW, I have had great success with Novell's online offering, however, it
may not be appropriate for the "critical" server issue you experienced.

T2


                                                                           
             Leonard Holling                                               
             <lholling at microve                                             
             ll.com.au>                                                 To 
             Sent by:                  Novell LAN Interest Group           
             novell-bounces at ne         <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>      
             tlab1.oucs.ox.ac.                                          cc 
             uk                                                            
                                                                   Subject 
                                       Re: [BULK]  Re: Whither Novell?     
             04/23/2009 08:56                                              
             PM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
                Novell LAN                                                 
              Interest Group                                               
             <novell at netlab1.o                                             
               ucs.ox.ac.uk>                                               
                                                                           
                                                                           




Hi Dave

We were told that the best way to skip India is to just say that you do
not understand them and they have to put you through to the US or Europe.

Leonard...

On 24/04/2009 4:50 AM, Dave Moon wrote:
> I actually had to use Bangalore for a crashed server one night.  My issue
was not in what the guy knew but the fact that it took three times longer
just so we understood each other.  He never caught on to the fact that I
have been around novell 25 years.  I just need help through my nds issue.
If I could have talked to the states I would have been done in about 3-4
hours instead of 12.
>
> Other than that they were great help.
>
> dave
>
> Dave Moon A+
> Peru Community Schools
> 401 N. Broadway
> Peru, IN 46970
> 765-473-3081
> fax 765-472-5129
>
>
>
>>>> Geoffrey Carman<geoffreycarman at gmail.com>  4/23/2009 9:38 AM>>>
>>>>
> You have to be fair and let them try to solve it from Bangalore, but
> once they have taken a swing, and you are not happy.  Ask to be
> escalated.  If they refuse.  Ask to speak to their manager.  Keep
> asking until they do it.  Don't wait.
>
> You are in charge of your incident, and you can control it.  Make it
> clear you will continue to be a PITA until they do it, and usually
> they can justify it to their boss why it was done, since YOU were
> being unreasonable.  (They cannot fire YOU!)
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Christopher Mangiarelli
> <cmangiarelli at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> Shaun Price is an awesome engineer.  He's helped me on more than one
>> occasion.  Then again, most of the engineers in Utah are pretty damn
good.
>> India isn't bad for first level support, but what irks me is the amount
of
>> time it takes for them to transition a major problem to the backline
>> engineers.  They are probably evaluated by the amount of calls they can
>> solve without a hand-off, but as a customer I could care less who gets
>> credit for solving my problem, I just want it solved as quickly as
possible.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Michael
Glenn<MGlenn at cco.state.oh.us>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Just a wee bit of marketing would be nice, if only to help me keep all
the
>>> products straight, but where I agree with Bill is on the Tech Support
part.
>>> That is what I think has finally pushed me over the edge.
>>>
>>> When the never-to-be-sufficiently-cursed bean-counters decided to
>>> "economize" by shipping TS off to a pack of undertrained mumblers on
the
>>> other side of the planet, my ability to do my job was placed in serious
>>> jeopardy. One of my recent incidents (SR 10373089131) went on for TEN
>>> MONTHS, FIVE of which consisted of just trying to get someone to answer
my
>>> correspondence, and if Shaun Price hadn't stepped in, I have no doubt I
>>> would *still* be on hold. I have a new incident running even as I write
(SR
>>> 10483133001), and it's been eight days since I last heard from my
little
>>> flowchart-follower in Mumbai.
>>>
>>> *This* is "Premium Support?"
>>>
>>> Enough. I've had it.
>>>
>>> Regards;
>>>          --------->Michael.
>>> MCNE, CLP, BOFH
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Christopher Mangiarelli
>> cmangiarelli at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

--
____________________________________________________________________
Leonard Holling         Email:<mailto:lholling at microvell.com.au>
Systems Engineer
Microvell Consulting Pty Ltd

_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


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From RGrein at tpchd.org  Fri Apr 24 16:41:42 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:41:42 -0700
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904231458o46f8f75cja609379d06155bbc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0ABC1020000750004BB76@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
	<167f4090904231458o46f8f75cja609379d06155bbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F17B4602000072000322BA@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

I don't see that would be a problem. EOL is supposed to be what, 2012 - 3 years from now, and support will continue for well past that. And support has been pretty good lately - I've had to call for support several times (mostly on Groupwise, but also on other products) and it's been pretty good. Phone, chat or email and regardless of location it's been pretty good. The fact that we CAN get tier 2 support is great, now if only CNEs were still able to buy single incidents.

I wished I could say we had your options, but the IS manager here insists on acting as Sr. Network Engineer especially regarding technology directions. Netware is being downgraded to virtualized Windows (Uptime stats for the past year back up my contention that this is a downgrade) but at least we get to keep Zen, and may keep Groupwise. He wants Exchange so bad he can taste it, but the cost is insane.





Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> 4/23/2009 2:58 PM >>>
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:56 PM, James Taylor
<James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a very viable plan.
> I don't know what your migration schedule is, but I have a couple of sites running clustered OES2SP1, and they have been running quite well.
> SP2 just went into closed beta, so it will be several months before it is available.
> -jt
>
>

In discussion we've been operating under the assumption that we can
get another year out of Netware without a problem.

Bill
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

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From RGrein at tpchd.org  Fri Apr 24 16:48:31 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:48:31 -0700
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
In-Reply-To: <OF59B9996E.CC84D197-ON852575A2.004AD57A-852575A2.004B12B8@lancaster.wnyric.org>
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF59B9996E.CC84D197-ON852575A2.004AD57A-852575A2.004B12B8@lancaster.wnyric.org>
Message-ID: <49F17CDF02000072000322C0@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

You might want to drill into some of the details during the implementation. I just found out from my coworker handling the virtual environment that our ESX hosted virtual environment doesn't support multiple interfaces with iSCSI - even though it happily takes the configuration. All of the assumptions on performance were based on multiple interfaces, so now we get to wait for esx 4. I don't know a thing about it myself, so if anyone knows different chime in.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> <TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org> 4/24/2009 6:39 AM >>>
Bill,

We will be implementing a virtual SLES10SP2/OES2SP1 cluster on Citrix
XenServer using a Lefthand iSCSI SAN.  We have had decent throughput with
hosting the NSS volumes on iSCSI and using the iSCSI initiators on the VMs
to access.

Anyway, I would be glad to post back any gotchas we encounter either
on-list or off.

T2


                                                                           
             Bill Brush                                                    
             <bbrush at gmail.com                                             
             >                                                          To 
             Sent by:                  Novell LAN Interest Group           
             novell-bounces at ne         <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>      
             tlab1.oucs.ox.ac.                                          cc 
             uk                                                            
                                                                   Subject 
                                       Whither Bill? The rest of the story 
             04/23/2009 05:41                                              
             PM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
                Novell LAN                                                 
              Interest Group                                               
             <novell at netlab1.o                                             
               ucs.ox.ac.uk>                                               
                                                                           
                                                                           




Since my question touched off a minor (and somewhat cathartic)
threadnought,
I thought I'd start a new one to give the rest of the story.

We had our strategic direction meeting yesterday and with many thanks to
this group and the discussion in the "Whither Novell?" thread I was able to
enter into it with a clear understanding of my own mind.

I think the expectation among my peers was that we were going to spend our
time discussing staying on Netware vs. moving to Windows.  I surprised them
and seized the advantage by coming out immediately with an acknowledgment
that Netware is not a viable long term solution and it will be better for
us
to plot our course now when it's not an emergency rather than wait until we
hit the reefs.  So I changed the parameters of the discussion from "Netware
vs. Windows" to "OES-L vs. Windows vs. 3rd option."  I don't think they
were
quite ready for that and it allowed me to work from a position of strength
even though I'm just one old codger.  Age and treachery and all that.  :-)

Anyway I was able to get them to agree that the path of least resistance
and
least work would be to start adding in Linux nodes to the cluster, then
dropping out the Netware nodes.  For hardware cost savings it is desirable
to have the Linux nodes be virtualized (VMware Virtual Infrastructure, soon
to be Vsphere)  but I have to investigate whether a mixed physical/virtual
cluster is even supportable, not to mention a fully virtual cluster.  I
don't necessarily like the idea of the added complexity of a cluster on top
of virtual hardware, but virtualizing has other benefits so I'm willing to
go that route.

We still have concerns about Novell's viability since they seem to be
floundering from a strategic standpoint, but we've been flying solo for the
last several years so it's nothing new. I hope they can change that because
I'm tired fo the perpetual SNAFU that has been symptomatic of Novell's
customer relationship for the last decade.

So anyway, I'll be adding some OES2 SP(x) nodes to my cluster. My intention
is to hold off until sp2 is out of beta and do testing between now and then
on sp1.

Anyone have some sage advice about this whole plan?

Bill
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 


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From glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com  Fri Apr 24 19:00:17 2009
From: glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com (Glenn Collrin)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:00:17 -0300
Subject: Migration to Windows
In-Reply-To: <OF641BA01F.2326A280-ON852575A2.004B1422-852575A2.004B33B2@lancaster.wnyric.org>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk><167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>	<49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us><f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>	<993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com><49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us><49F0FCF4.2090502@microvell.com.au>
	<OF641BA01F.2326A280-ON852575A2.004B1422-852575A2.004B33B2@lancaster.wnyric.org>
Message-ID: <DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B562EDF@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>

Hello Group, 

I have a single 5.1 sp8 server with user accounts and their data on it.
I have user accounts created in active directory for 2003 server but not
synced with Novell accounts.  Today users login to Novell with 4.91
client and them pass-through to active directory with same user ID but
data files reside on novell.  I need to move the data, and groups from
the novell server to the 2003 server.  I like to ensure security groups
for file access is also part of the migration and that file ownership is
maintained.  

What steps should I be following.  Please I like to know. I am sure
others in this group had to face this challenge for some of their sites.

From RGrein at tpchd.org  Fri Apr 24 19:52:36 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:52:36 -0700
Subject: Migration to Windows
In-Reply-To: <DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B562EDF@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk><167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us><f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com>
	<993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com><49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us><49F0FCF4.2090502@microvell.com.au>
	<OF641BA01F.2326A280-ON852575A2.004B1422-852575A2.004B33B2@lancaster.wnyric.org>
	<DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B562EDF@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>
Message-ID: <49F1A804020000720003231A@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

Every migration I have been involved in (living in Seattle I've done a lot) the decision was made to re-think security on migration. Windows file rights are rather different and unless your rights configuration is close to trivial you are rather likely to get unexpected results with a straightforward mapping between the two. Also it's likely that enough time has passed since initial configuration that the initial configuration isn't what the organization needs now.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "Glenn Collrin" <glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com> 4/24/2009 11:00 AM >>>
Hello Group, 

I have a single 5.1 sp8 server with user accounts and their data on it.
I have user accounts created in active directory for 2003 server but not
synced with Novell accounts.  Today users login to Novell with 4.91
client and them pass-through to active directory with same user ID but
data files reside on novell.  I need to move the data, and groups from
the novell server to the 2003 server.  I like to ensure security groups
for file access is also part of the migration and that file ownership is
maintained.  

What steps should I be following.  Please I like to know. I am sure
others in this group had to face this challenge for some of their sites.
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

*************************************************************************************
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. It has been scanned for viruses. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination, use, review, disclosure, or distribution of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
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From glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com  Fri Apr 24 19:59:26 2009
From: glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com (Glenn Collrin)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:59:26 -0300
Subject: Migration to Windows
In-Reply-To: <49F1A804020000720003231A@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com><49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk><167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com><49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us><f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com><993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com><49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us><49F0FCF4.2090502@microvell.com.au><OF641BA01F.2326A280-ON852575A2.004B1422-852575A2.004B33B2@lancaster.wnyric.org><DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B562EDF@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>
	<49F1A804020000720003231A@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
Message-ID: <DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B5631A8@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>


It sounds like you made new groups and populate those groups with ad
users, and defined rights to files, and set up shares also

This would involve understanding the existing groups in novell and file
individual access and then mimic in ad to best approach

What about file ownership, this was so easy in novell and you could
restrict, it seems Microsoft quota is much to be desired, but can the
file ownership attributes be brought over into ad?



-----Original Message-----
From: novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
[mailto:novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Randy Grein
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 3:53 PM
To: Novell LAN Interest Group
Subject: Re: Migration to Windows

Every migration I have been involved in (living in Seattle I've done a
lot) the decision was made to re-think security on migration. Windows
file rights are rather different and unless your rights configuration is
close to trivial you are rather likely to get unexpected results with a
straightforward mapping between the two. Also it's likely that enough
time has passed since initial configuration that the initial
configuration isn't what the organization needs now.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "Glenn Collrin" <glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com> 4/24/2009 11:00 AM
>>>
Hello Group, 

I have a single 5.1 sp8 server with user accounts and their data on it.
I have user accounts created in active directory for 2003 server but not
synced with Novell accounts.  Today users login to Novell with 4.91
client and them pass-through to active directory with same user ID but
data files reside on novell.  I need to move the data, and groups from
the novell server to the 2003 server.  I like to ensure security groups
for file access is also part of the migration and that file ownership is
maintained.  

What steps should I be following.  Please I like to know. I am sure
others in this group had to face this challenge for some of their sites.
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

************************************************************************
*************
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. It has been scanned for viruses. If you are not the
intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination,
use, review, disclosure, or distribution of this information by a person
other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
************************************************************************
**************


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Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From RGrein at tpchd.org  Fri Apr 24 20:59:02 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:59:02 -0700
Subject: Migration to Windows
In-Reply-To: <DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B5631A8@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com><49EA0EB4.7020803@netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk><167f4090904201324i391ff0fahbdd4a6eac3eb5d5b@mail.gmail.com><49ED95FE.33FD.002C.1@cco.state.oh.us><f47566ff0904230631n7cbbe720t40ff7c2c8ede5205@mail.gmail.com><993788ac0904230638w7429e173gd77997799605838@mail.gmail.com><49F09C62.44EC.00EB.0@peru.k12.in.us><49F0FCF4.2090502@microvell.com.au><OF641BA01F.2326A280-ON852575A2.004B1422-852575A2.004B33B2@lancaster.wnyric.org><DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B562EDF@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>
	<49F1A804020000720003231A@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
	<DF28D655A1CDF940A429F248FBE215220B5631A8@HMCEXCHANGE.aliantasp.com>
Message-ID: <49F1B796020000720003232D@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

Correct on the first two counts.
  
Last I checked (Server 2008 may be better, but I doubt it) hardly anyone used quotas on Windows - they don't work very well and they impose a heavy load on the server. Directory limits are now available under Windows Server 2003R2 and above but again it's not used much. It is uncommon to define rights to individual files for two reasons - admin by exception handles the situation nicely without getting that granular and many applications aren't eligible as they use a save/delete cycle to update a file. This technet article explains it from a 2003 perspective, but apparently there is a 2008 mmc snapin that allows graphical management. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/topics/win2003/quotas.mspx

Finally, I don't see a reason to bring file ownership over. You COULD use the Microsoft 'File migration utility' for this, but I recommend strongly that you consider what you're trying to preserve before doing so. Look at this technet article to understand how it works: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc759442.aspx 

I think you'll have to get used to 'it was so easy in novell'; there are solid reasons why migrating to Windows increases head count.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "Glenn Collrin" <glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com> 4/24/2009 11:59 AM >>>

It sounds like you made new groups and populate those groups with ad
users, and defined rights to files, and set up shares also

This would involve understanding the existing groups in novell and file
individual access and then mimic in ad to best approach

What about file ownership, this was so easy in novell and you could
restrict, it seems Microsoft quota is much to be desired, but can the
file ownership attributes be brought over into ad?



-----Original Message-----
From: novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
[mailto:novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Randy Grein
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 3:53 PM
To: Novell LAN Interest Group
Subject: Re: Migration to Windows

Every migration I have been involved in (living in Seattle I've done a
lot) the decision was made to re-think security on migration. Windows
file rights are rather different and unless your rights configuration is
close to trivial you are rather likely to get unexpected results with a
straightforward mapping between the two. Also it's likely that enough
time has passed since initial configuration that the initial
configuration isn't what the organization needs now.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "Glenn Collrin" <glenn.collrin at marwoodmail.com> 4/24/2009 11:00 AM
>>>
Hello Group, 

I have a single 5.1 sp8 server with user accounts and their data on it.
I have user accounts created in active directory for 2003 server but not
synced with Novell accounts.  Today users login to Novell with 4.91
client and them pass-through to active directory with same user ID but
data files reside on novell.  I need to move the data, and groups from
the novell server to the 2003 server.  I like to ensure security groups
for file access is also part of the migration and that file ownership is
maintained.  

What steps should I be following.  Please I like to know. I am sure
others in this group had to face this challenge for some of their sites.
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 

************************************************************************
*************
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. It has been scanned for viruses. If you are not the
intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination,
use, review, disclosure, or distribution of this information by a person
other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
************************************************************************
**************


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
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From craig at caffeine-addict.com  Sun Apr 26 06:11:02 2009
From: craig at caffeine-addict.com (Craig Zeigler)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:11:02 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell?
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904171259g4b714e89n85c67a6612fc041b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F3ECE6.7060308@caffeine-addict.com>

Bill Brush wrote:
> So it would seem that the inevitable day of reckoning is fast
> approaching and we are facing the question of what to do with our file
> server infrastructure.  I am working very hard at not being a hide
> bound old reactionary dinosaur when it comes to the question, although
> that's very difficult when I contemplate the removal of our Netware
> cluster and replacing it with Windoze boxes.  It's hard to deny
> however that something has to be done, and it's better to look at it
> now when it's not a problem than wait until a disaster occurs.
>
> Ultimately, I question whether OES-L is going to grow into a worthy
> replacement for Netware from a file and print standpoint.  We have
> some OES-L boxes here, but they're a tad twitchy and get a lot of ire
> directed at them due to odd incidents where something breaks and no
> one really knows why.
>
> We also have the problem that Novell as a company seems to be, unclear
> in its focus.  I hear that they're very interested in obtaining and
> retaining academic customers, but I don't consider an e-mail once
> every 2 months to be doing much for establishing a relationship.  I
> guess that is one of the things that irks me more than anything.
> Novell needs to be out there establishing a channel (since Messman
> destroyed the last one), and working to get customers and they seem
> oblivious to this.  I see my storage vendor sales rep at least
> quarterly (in the flesh) and he calls me on a semi-regular basis.  If
> a company doesn't value my business, then why am I bothering to
> patronize them?  Other vendors stop by, learn our business,  and take
> us out to lunch.  Hell even Microsoft had a rep here and available for
> questions not too long ago.
>
> If it comes down to it, what options do I have other than MS and
> Novell?  A straight up Linux/SAMBA install isn't going to cut it with
> terabytes of storage and a need for good management.
>
> So what do you fine ladies and gentlemen think?  What have you found
> out there for storing files other than M$ or Novell?
>
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>
>   
When you say a Linux/SAMBA system doesn't work terabytes of data, I have 
to think about some of the PACS systems I work with (medical imaging). 
They're around 300TB and soon to be adding another 500TB of space. The 
linux systems they run on work perfectly. The space is connected with a 
combination of JBOD, and SAN.

As far as a channel for Novell's products, yes, they need to do 
something if they want to stay in the game. They have hitched their 
wagon to Open Source software, and if they want to make it work, they 
need to step up. I still find some of the Novell stuff to be clunky, but 
I don't work with it every day.

If you're just looking for file storage, then I would recommend Linux 
(pick a flavor, any flavor) but before you do, look for your local Linux 
user's group, and get involved. You will learn a lot, and you can build 
a very robust solution. LDAP works well, Samba, like most Linux server 
(including any respectable e-mail server) interfaces with it as well. 
Best thing to do is analyze your needs, talent available to you, and 
build your solution around that.

From HPfeil at uca.edu  Mon Apr 27 20:33:23 2009
From: HPfeil at uca.edu (Hans Pfeil)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:33:23 -0500
Subject: Update a NIC Driver
Message-ID: <49F5C233.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>

Hey all,

What's the easiest way to update a NIC driver without installing SP8.  I'm running NW6.5.7

Thanks
-Hans



From joea at j4computers.com  Mon Apr 27 21:41:01 2009
From: joea at j4computers.com (joea at j4computers.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:41:01 -0400
Subject: Update a NIC Driver
Message-ID: <49F5E019020000850005FBBF@FS-LIN-OES>

copy the appropriate files over (rename old, first).  reboot.
 
joe a.

>>> "Hans Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> 04/27/09 3:35 PM >>> 
Hey all, 

What's the easiest way to update a NIC driver without installing SP8. I'm running NW6.5.7 

Thanks 
-Hans 


_______________________________________________ 
Novell mailing list 
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From HPfeil at uca.edu  Mon Apr 27 22:05:48 2009
From: HPfeil at uca.edu (Hans Pfeil)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: Update a NIC Driver
In-Reply-To: <49F5E019020000850005FBBF@FS-LIN-OES>
References: <49F5E019020000850005FBBF@FS-LIN-OES>
Message-ID: <49F5D7DB.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>

Hey Joe thanks for your reply.

I did a search in sys:system for .LDI and .LAN files.  I only find them in c:\nwserver\drivers.  Is this what you really mean?

-Hans


>>> "joea at j4computers.com" <joea at j4computers.com> 4/27/2009 3:41 PM >>>
copy the appropriate files over (rename old, first).  reboot.
 
joe a.

>>> "Hans Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> 04/27/09 3:35 PM >>> 
Hey all, 

What's the easiest way to update a NIC driver without installing SP8. I'm running NW6.5.7 

Thanks 
-Hans 


_______________________________________________ 
Novell mailing list 
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 

_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us  Mon Apr 27 22:57:41 2009
From: sutick at co.lewis-clark.mt.us (Steve Utick)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:57:41 -0600
Subject: Update a NIC Driver
In-Reply-To: <49F5D7DB.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
References: <49F5E019020000850005FBBF@FS-LIN-OES>
	<49F5D7DB.6010.00BD.0@uca.edu>
Message-ID: <49F5D5F5020000ED00011692@lcc-ccb-gw1.co.lewis-clark.mt.us>

You can do a "Modules *.lan" which will tell you where it was loaded from.

And, there should really be no need to reboot.   You should be able to unload the existing lan driver and then do a reinitialize system to reload and bind everything.





-- 

---------------------------------------------------
Steve Utick
Infrastructure Center Supervisor
Lewis & Clark County
316 N. Park - Room 211
Helena, MT  59623
---------------------------------------------------
>>> On 4/27/2009 at 3:05 PM, in message <49F5D7DB.6010.00BD.0 at uca.edu>, "Hans
Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> wrote:
> Hey Joe thanks for your reply.
> 
> I did a search in sys:system for .LDI and .LAN files.  I only find them in 
> c:\nwserver\drivers.  Is this what you really mean?
> 
> -Hans
> 
> 
>>>> "joea at j4computers.com" <joea at j4computers.com> 4/27/2009 3:41 PM >>>
> copy the appropriate files over (rename old, first).  reboot.
>  
> joe a.
> 
>>>> "Hans Pfeil" <HPfeil at uca.edu> 04/27/09 3:35 PM >>> 
> Hey all, 
> 
> What's the easiest way to update a NIC driver without installing SP8. I'm 
> running NW6.5.7 
> 
> Thanks 
> -Hans 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Novell mailing list 
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

-------------- next part --------------
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From cmangiarelli at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 17:02:15 2009
From: cmangiarelli at gmail.com (Christopher Mangiarelli)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:02:15 -0400
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
In-Reply-To: <49F17CDF02000072000322C0@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF59B9996E.CC84D197-ON852575A2.004AD57A-852575A2.004B12B8@lancaster.wnyric.org>
	<49F17CDF02000072000322C0@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
Message-ID: <f47566ff0904280902k7e44e4d4j8c0fe95e18049827@mail.gmail.com>

I'm assuming you want to use multiple hardware iSCSI initiators to load
balance datastore access.  The answer is, he's correct.  Load balancing is
not supported on ESX 3.x (even with fiber).  Fault Tolerance is supported.
You can configure round-robin which was their attempt to load balance but
it's not that good.  True load balancing on the datastores is due to ship
with ESX4.  The way we get some balancing in the current world is to
alternate the primary interfaces on the datastores.  For example, let's say
you had two fiber HBA's and 6 datastores.  You could do a couple of things
to spread out traffic:

1. Have all the odd numbered datastores primary set to HBA1 and backup set
to HBA2.  Have all even numbered datastores primary set to HBA2 and backup
set to HBA1.

and/or

2. Assuming a guest has two attached virtual disks, place one disk on an
even numbered datastore and the other on an odd numbered datastore.

There are other ways to balance if you have more HBA's, but you get the
picture.

The iSCSI Software initiator works over the VMkernel port and you can assign
multiple ethernet NICs to service the vswitch and get true load balancing.
However, there is only one iSCSI software initiator per HOST and it has to
go across a VMkernel port group.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Randy Grein <RGrein at tpchd.org> wrote:

> You might want to drill into some of the details during the implementation.
> I just found out from my coworker handling the virtual environment that our
> ESX hosted virtual environment doesn't support multiple interfaces with
> iSCSI - even though it happily takes the configuration. All of the
> assumptions on performance were based on multiple interfaces, so now we get
> to wait for esx 4. I don't know a thing about it myself, so if anyone knows
> different chime in.
>
>
>
>
> Randy Grein
> Sr. Network Engineer
> >>> <TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org> 4/24/2009 6:39 AM >>>
> Bill,
>
> We will be implementing a virtual SLES10SP2/OES2SP1 cluster on Citrix
> XenServer using a Lefthand iSCSI SAN.  We have had decent throughput with
> hosting the NSS volumes on iSCSI and using the iSCSI initiators on the VMs
> to access.
>
> Anyway, I would be glad to post back any gotchas we encounter either
> on-list or off.
>
> T2
>
>
>
>             Bill Brush
>             <bbrush at gmail.com
>             >                                                          To
>             Sent by:                  Novell LAN Interest Group
>             novell-bounces at ne         <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
>             tlab1.oucs.ox.ac.                                          cc
>             uk
>                                                                   Subject
>                                       Whither Bill? The rest of the story
>             04/23/2009 05:41
>             PM
>
>
>             Please respond to
>                Novell LAN
>              Interest Group
>             <novell at netlab1.o
>               ucs.ox.ac.uk>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Since my question touched off a minor (and somewhat cathartic)
> threadnought,
> I thought I'd start a new one to give the rest of the story.
>
> We had our strategic direction meeting yesterday and with many thanks to
> this group and the discussion in the "Whither Novell?" thread I was able to
> enter into it with a clear understanding of my own mind.
>
> I think the expectation among my peers was that we were going to spend our
> time discussing staying on Netware vs. moving to Windows.  I surprised them
> and seized the advantage by coming out immediately with an acknowledgment
> that Netware is not a viable long term solution and it will be better for
> us
> to plot our course now when it's not an emergency rather than wait until we
> hit the reefs.  So I changed the parameters of the discussion from "Netware
> vs. Windows" to "OES-L vs. Windows vs. 3rd option."  I don't think they
> were
> quite ready for that and it allowed me to work from a position of strength
> even though I'm just one old codger.  Age and treachery and all that.  :-)
>
> Anyway I was able to get them to agree that the path of least resistance
> and
> least work would be to start adding in Linux nodes to the cluster, then
> dropping out the Netware nodes.  For hardware cost savings it is desirable
> to have the Linux nodes be virtualized (VMware Virtual Infrastructure, soon
> to be Vsphere)  but I have to investigate whether a mixed physical/virtual
> cluster is even supportable, not to mention a fully virtual cluster.  I
> don't necessarily like the idea of the added complexity of a cluster on top
> of virtual hardware, but virtualizing has other benefits so I'm willing to
> go that route.
>
> We still have concerns about Novell's viability since they seem to be
> floundering from a strategic standpoint, but we've been flying solo for the
> last several years so it's nothing new. I hope they can change that because
> I'm tired fo the perpetual SNAFU that has been symptomatic of Novell's
> customer relationship for the last decade.
>
> So anyway, I'll be adding some OES2 SP(x) nodes to my cluster. My intention
> is to hold off until sp2 is out of beta and do testing between now and then
> on sp1.
>
> Anyone have some sage advice about this whole plan?
>
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>
>
> --
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 187059149) is spam:
> Spam:
> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=187059149&m=21253cbea6cd&c=s
> Not spam:
> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=187059149&m=21253cbea6cd&c=n
> Forget vote:
> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=187059149&m=21253cbea6cd&c=f
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>
> *************************************************************************************
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> information. It has been scanned for viruses. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete
> this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination, use, review,
> disclosure, or distribution of this information by a person other than the
> intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
> **************************************************************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>



-- 
Christopher Mangiarelli
cmangiarelli at gmail.com

From jdustin at usm.maine.edu  Tue Apr 28 17:31:03 2009
From: jdustin at usm.maine.edu (Jon Dustin)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:31:03 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell
Message-ID: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>

  >>> On 4/23/2009 at 7:17 PM, in message <49F728D0.7E6 : 77 : 18406>, "Larry Burd"
<larry at ladyburd.com> wrote:
> Whither Novell
> ------------------------------
> 
> I must admit, we deployed our first 2008 SBS server, and I like it.   I'm 
> going to school next week, so I know how to use this thing called AD.  Most 
> of it I am figuring out on my own.
> I just see no future in Novell.   
> For now, I have (2)  5.1 servers, and a newbie SBS server.
> 
> I'm sure eventually the 5.1 servers will die off, and we'll be solo MS.  
> It's just a matter of time.   I'm just waiting for the Dot Matrix printers to 
> die first :)
> 
> I hear I am the last Novell shop on Long Island.
> 
> Larry

So you are trying to compare NetWare v5.1 to Windows Server 2008? Perhaps a more accurate comparison is between NetWare v5.1 and Windows NT (same vintage). 

Good luck with your migration!

-- 

 
Jon Dustin - Network Specialist
University of Southern Maine
Portland, ME  207-780-4152



From evansj21 at msu.edu  Wed Apr 29 00:07:18 2009
From: evansj21 at msu.edu (John Evans)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:07:18 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell
In-Reply-To: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>
References: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <49F753D0.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>

Jon,
 
I'm glad you "spoke up" so to speak.  It amazes me how frequently people lack to compare...how shall I write it...apples to apples?
 
...John


>>> "Jon Dustin" <jdustin at usm.maine.edu> 4/28/2009 12:31 PM >>>
  >>> On 4/23/2009 at 7:17 PM, in message <49F728D0.7E6 : 77 : 18406>, "Larry Burd"
<larry at ladyburd.com> wrote:
> Whither Novell
> ------------------------------
> 
> I must admit, we deployed our first 2008 SBS server, and I like it.   I'm 
> going to school next week, so I know how to use this thing called AD.  Most 
> of it I am figuring out on my own.
> I just see no future in Novell.   
> For now, I have (2)  5.1 servers, and a newbie SBS server.
> 
> I'm sure eventually the 5.1 servers will die off, and we'll be solo MS.  
> It's just a matter of time.   I'm just waiting for the Dot Matrix printers to 
> die first :)
> 
> I hear I am the last Novell shop on Long Island.
> 
> Larry

So you are trying to compare NetWare v5.1 to Windows Server 2008? Perhaps a more accurate comparison is between NetWare v5.1 and Windows NT (same vintage). 

Good luck with your migration!

-- 


Jon Dustin - Network Specialist
University of Southern Maine
Portland, ME  207-780-4152


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From randygrein at comcast.net  Wed Apr 29 00:42:02 2009
From: randygrein at comcast.net (Randy Grein)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:42:02 -0700
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
In-Reply-To: <f47566ff0904280902k7e44e4d4j8c0fe95e18049827@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF59B9996E.CC84D197-ON852575A2.004AD57A-852575A2.004B12B8@lancaster.wnyric.org>
	<49F17CDF02000072000322C0@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
	<f47566ff0904280902k7e44e4d4j8c0fe95e18049827@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20FAE4A0-5DA4-4622-A7B4-0F404078F492@comcast.net>

Basically - this is the configuration our manager THOUGHT he had  
working. I think they'll just ignore the deficiency until 4 comes out.
Randy Grein, Master CNE, CCNA

On Apr 28, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Christopher Mangiarelli wrote:

> I'm assuming you want to use multiple hardware iSCSI initiators to  
> load
> balance datastore access.  The answer is, he's correct.  Load  
> balancing is
> not supported on ESX 3.x (even with fiber).  Fault Tolerance is  
> supported.
> You can configure round-robin which was their attempt to load  
> balance but
> it's not that good.  True load balancing on the datastores is due to  
> ship
> with ESX4.  The way we get some balancing in the current world is to
> alternate the primary interfaces on the datastores.  For example,  
> let's say
> you had two fiber HBA's and 6 datastores.  You could do a couple of  
> things
> to spread out traffic:
>
> 1. Have all the odd numbered datastores primary set to HBA1 and  
> backup set
> to HBA2.  Have all even numbered datastores primary set to HBA2 and  
> backup
> set to HBA1.
>
> and/or
>
> 2. Assuming a guest has two attached virtual disks, place one disk  
> on an
> even numbered datastore and the other on an odd numbered datastore.
>
> There are other ways to balance if you have more HBA's, but you get  
> the
> picture.
>
> The iSCSI Software initiator works over the VMkernel port and you  
> can assign
> multiple ethernet NICs to service the vswitch and get true load  
> balancing.
> However, there is only one iSCSI software initiator per HOST and it  
> has to
> go across a VMkernel port group.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Randy Grein <RGrein at tpchd.org>  
> wrote:
>
>> You might want to drill into some of the details during the  
>> implementation.
>> I just found out from my coworker handling the virtual environment  
>> that our
>> ESX hosted virtual environment doesn't support multiple interfaces  
>> with
>> iSCSI - even though it happily takes the configuration. All of the
>> assumptions on performance were based on multiple interfaces, so  
>> now we get
>> to wait for esx 4. I don't know a thing about it myself, so if  
>> anyone knows
>> different chime in.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy Grein
>> Sr. Network Engineer
>>>>> <TJohnson at lancaster.wnyric.org> 4/24/2009 6:39 AM >>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> We will be implementing a virtual SLES10SP2/OES2SP1 cluster on Citrix
>> XenServer using a Lefthand iSCSI SAN.  We have had decent  
>> throughput with
>> hosting the NSS volumes on iSCSI and using the iSCSI initiators on  
>> the VMs
>> to access.
>>
>> Anyway, I would be glad to post back any gotchas we encounter either
>> on-list or off.
>>
>> T2
>>
>>
>>
>>            Bill Brush
>>            <bbrush at gmail.com
>>>                                                         To
>>            Sent by:                  Novell LAN Interest Group
>>            novell-bounces at ne         <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
>>             
>> tlab1.oucs.ox.ac.                                          cc
>>            uk
>>                                                                   
>> Subject
>>                                      Whither Bill? The rest of the  
>> story
>>            04/23/2009 05:41
>>            PM
>>
>>
>>            Please respond to
>>               Novell LAN
>>             Interest Group
>>            <novell at netlab1.o
>>              ucs.ox.ac.uk>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Since my question touched off a minor (and somewhat cathartic)
>> threadnought,
>> I thought I'd start a new one to give the rest of the story.
>>
>> We had our strategic direction meeting yesterday and with many  
>> thanks to
>> this group and the discussion in the "Whither Novell?" thread I was  
>> able to
>> enter into it with a clear understanding of my own mind.
>>
>> I think the expectation among my peers was that we were going to  
>> spend our
>> time discussing staying on Netware vs. moving to Windows.  I  
>> surprised them
>> and seized the advantage by coming out immediately with an  
>> acknowledgment
>> that Netware is not a viable long term solution and it will be  
>> better for
>> us
>> to plot our course now when it's not an emergency rather than wait  
>> until we
>> hit the reefs.  So I changed the parameters of the discussion from  
>> "Netware
>> vs. Windows" to "OES-L vs. Windows vs. 3rd option."  I don't think  
>> they
>> were
>> quite ready for that and it allowed me to work from a position of  
>> strength
>> even though I'm just one old codger.  Age and treachery and all  
>> that.  :-)
>>
>> Anyway I was able to get them to agree that the path of least  
>> resistance
>> and
>> least work would be to start adding in Linux nodes to the cluster,  
>> then
>> dropping out the Netware nodes.  For hardware cost savings it is  
>> desirable
>> to have the Linux nodes be virtualized (VMware Virtual  
>> Infrastructure, soon
>> to be Vsphere)  but I have to investigate whether a mixed physical/ 
>> virtual
>> cluster is even supportable, not to mention a fully virtual  
>> cluster.  I
>> don't necessarily like the idea of the added complexity of a  
>> cluster on top
>> of virtual hardware, but virtualizing has other benefits so I'm  
>> willing to
>> go that route.
>>
>> We still have concerns about Novell's viability since they seem to be
>> floundering from a strategic standpoint, but we've been flying solo  
>> for the
>> last several years so it's nothing new. I hope they can change that  
>> because
>> I'm tired fo the perpetual SNAFU that has been symptomatic of  
>> Novell's
>> customer relationship for the last decade.
>>
>> So anyway, I'll be adding some OES2 SP(x) nodes to my cluster. My  
>> intention
>> is to hold off until sp2 is out of beta and do testing between now  
>> and then
>> on sp1.
>>
>> Anyone have some sage advice about this whole plan?
>>
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>>
>>
>> --
>> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 187059149) is spam:
>> Spam:
>> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=187059149&m=21253cbea6cd&c=s
>> Not spam:
>> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=187059149&m=21253cbea6cd&c=n
>> Forget vote:
>> http://milton1.wnyric.org/canit/b.php?i=187059149&m=21253cbea6cd&c=f
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>>
>> *************************************************************************************
>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and  
>> privileged
>> information. It has been scanned for viruses. If you are not the  
>> intended
>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail,  
>> delete
>> this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination, use, review,
>> disclosure, or distribution of this information by a person other  
>> than the
>> intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>>
>> **************************************************************************************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Novell mailing list
>> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
>> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Christopher Mangiarelli
> cmangiarelli at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From RGrein at tpchd.org  Wed Apr 29 15:41:03 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:41:03 -0700
Subject: Whither Novell
In-Reply-To: <49F753D0.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
References: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>
	<49F753D0.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
Message-ID: <49F8048F02000072000327AF@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

I'm sorry Jon, but John is correct - comparing 2008 to  12 year old Netware 5.1 is not much of a comparison. It IS, however typical. The IS community has been crowing the impending demise of Novell for 15 years; if we all accept that lemming logic it will come to pass eventually. Of course, the same logic had Apple dead and buried in the mid 90's. They almost were, until a brilliant, charismatic (and ruthless) Steve Jobs was brought back. 10% market share now, slated for 20% by 2012 - not a majority, but a force to reckon with.

I will say there seems to be a lot to like about Windows 2008 - quotas are (finally!) available, performance is enhanced, clustering isn't quite as ugly, etc. It still feels like brain surgery wearing oven mitts and the vulnerability issues have not been addressed, as can be seen by the monthly patch/reboot cycle. But it's clear your direction has been set like mine, so good luck with it.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "John Evans" <evansj21 at msu.edu> 4/28/2009 4:07 PM >>>
Jon,
 
I'm glad you "spoke up" so to speak.  It amazes me how frequently people lack to compare...how shall I write it...apples to apples?
 
...John


>>> "Jon Dustin" <jdustin at usm.maine.edu> 4/28/2009 12:31 PM >>>
  >>> On 4/23/2009 at 7:17 PM, in message <49F728D0.7E6 : 77 : 18406>, "Larry Burd"
<larry at ladyburd.com> wrote:
> Whither Novell
> ------------------------------
> 
> I must admit, we deployed our first 2008 SBS server, and I like it.   I'm 
> going to school next week, so I know how to use this thing called AD.  Most 
> of it I am figuring out on my own.
> I just see no future in Novell.   
> For now, I have (2)  5.1 servers, and a newbie SBS server.
> 
> I'm sure eventually the 5.1 servers will die off, and we'll be solo MS.  
> It's just a matter of time.   I'm just waiting for the Dot Matrix printers to 
> die first :)
> 
> I hear I am the last Novell shop on Long Island.
> 
> Larry

So you are trying to compare NetWare v5.1 to Windows Server 2008? Perhaps a more accurate comparison is between NetWare v5.1 and Windows NT (same vintage). 

Good luck with your migration!

-- 


Jon Dustin - Network Specialist
University of Southern Maine
Portland, ME  207-780-4152


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

*************************************************************************************
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From evansj21 at msu.edu  Wed Apr 29 17:14:58 2009
From: evansj21 at msu.edu (John Evans)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:14:58 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell
In-Reply-To: <49F8048F02000072000327AF@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
References: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>
	<49F753D0.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
	<49F8048F02000072000327AF@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
Message-ID: <49F844AB.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>

Randy,
 
It wasn't Jon providing the inaccurate comparison...he was merely trying to point out to Larry the error of his ways and I was thanking Jon for it.  I like your inclusion of "lemming logic".  I have a picture of a Northern Collared Lemming posted near the door way of my cubical.  You think anyone will get the message?
 
...John


>>> "Randy Grein" <RGrein at tpchd.org> 4/29/2009 10:41 AM >>>
I'm sorry Jon, but John is correct - comparing 2008 to  12 year old Netware 5.1 is not much of a comparison. It IS, however typical. The IS community has been crowing the impending demise of Novell for 15 years; if we all accept that lemming logic it will come to pass eventually. Of course, the same logic had Apple dead and buried in the mid 90's. They almost were, until a brilliant, charismatic (and ruthless) Steve Jobs was brought back. 10% market share now, slated for 20% by 2012 - not a majority, but a force to reckon with.

I will say there seems to be a lot to like about Windows 2008 - quotas are (finally!) available, performance is enhanced, clustering isn't quite as ugly, etc. It still feels like brain surgery wearing oven mitts and the vulnerability issues have not been addressed, as can be seen by the monthly patch/reboot cycle. But it's clear your direction has been set like mine, so good luck with it.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "John Evans" <evansj21 at msu.edu> 4/28/2009 4:07 PM >>>
Jon,

I'm glad you "spoke up" so to speak.  It amazes me how frequently people lack to compare...how shall I write it...apples to apples?

...John


>>> "Jon Dustin" <jdustin at usm.maine.edu> 4/28/2009 12:31 PM >>>
  >>> On 4/23/2009 at 7:17 PM, in message <49F728D0.7E6 : 77 : 18406>, "Larry Burd"
<larry at ladyburd.com> wrote:
> Whither Novell
> ------------------------------
> 
> I must admit, we deployed our first 2008 SBS server, and I like it.   I'm 
> going to school next week, so I know how to use this thing called AD.  Most 
> of it I am figuring out on my own.
> I just see no future in Novell.   
> For now, I have (2)  5.1 servers, and a newbie SBS server.
> 
> I'm sure eventually the 5.1 servers will die off, and we'll be solo MS.  
> It's just a matter of time.   I'm just waiting for the Dot Matrix printers to 
> die first :)
> 
> I hear I am the last Novell shop on Long Island.
> 
> Larry

So you are trying to compare NetWare v5.1 to Windows Server 2008? Perhaps a more accurate comparison is between NetWare v5.1 and Windows NT (same vintage). 

Good luck with your migration!

-- 


Jon Dustin - Network Specialist
University of Southern Maine
Portland, ME  207-780-4152


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 

*************************************************************************************
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From RGrein at tpchd.org  Wed Apr 29 19:08:03 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:08:03 -0700
Subject: Whither Novell
In-Reply-To: <49F844AB.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
References: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>
	<49F753D0.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
	<49F8048F02000072000327AF@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
	<49F844AB.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
Message-ID: <49F835130200007200032833@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

You're right, I misread. Eyes getting tired.

Unfortunately I don't think many people who matter (read: decision makers) will get the message. It's interesting that management follows the least risk principal, which guarantees least profit - in a free market, anyway. The lemming behavior is a good example.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "John Evans" <evansj21 at msu.edu> 4/29/2009 9:14 AM >>>
Randy,
 
It wasn't Jon providing the inaccurate comparison...he was merely trying to point out to Larry the error of his ways and I was thanking Jon for it.  I like your inclusion of "lemming logic".  I have a picture of a Northern Collared Lemming posted near the door way of my cubical.  You think anyone will get the message?
 
...John


>>> "Randy Grein" <RGrein at tpchd.org> 4/29/2009 10:41 AM >>>
I'm sorry Jon, but John is correct - comparing 2008 to  12 year old Netware 5.1 is not much of a comparison. It IS, however typical. The IS community has been crowing the impending demise of Novell for 15 years; if we all accept that lemming logic it will come to pass eventually. Of course, the same logic had Apple dead and buried in the mid 90's. They almost were, until a brilliant, charismatic (and ruthless) Steve Jobs was brought back. 10% market share now, slated for 20% by 2012 - not a majority, but a force to reckon with.

I will say there seems to be a lot to like about Windows 2008 - quotas are (finally!) available, performance is enhanced, clustering isn't quite as ugly, etc. It still feels like brain surgery wearing oven mitts and the vulnerability issues have not been addressed, as can be seen by the monthly patch/reboot cycle. But it's clear your direction has been set like mine, so good luck with it.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "John Evans" <evansj21 at msu.edu> 4/28/2009 4:07 PM >>>
Jon,

I'm glad you "spoke up" so to speak.  It amazes me how frequently people lack to compare...how shall I write it...apples to apples?

...John


>>> "Jon Dustin" <jdustin at usm.maine.edu> 4/28/2009 12:31 PM >>>
  >>> On 4/23/2009 at 7:17 PM, in message <49F728D0.7E6 : 77 : 18406>, "Larry Burd"
<larry at ladyburd.com> wrote:
> Whither Novell
> ------------------------------
> 
> I must admit, we deployed our first 2008 SBS server, and I like it.   I'm 
> going to school next week, so I know how to use this thing called AD.  Most 
> of it I am figuring out on my own.
> I just see no future in Novell.   
> For now, I have (2)  5.1 servers, and a newbie SBS server.
> 
> I'm sure eventually the 5.1 servers will die off, and we'll be solo MS.  
> It's just a matter of time.   I'm just waiting for the Dot Matrix printers to 
> die first :)
> 
> I hear I am the last Novell shop on Long Island.
> 
> Larry

So you are trying to compare NetWare v5.1 to Windows Server 2008? Perhaps a more accurate comparison is between NetWare v5.1 and Windows NT (same vintage). 

Good luck with your migration!

-- 


Jon Dustin - Network Specialist
University of Southern Maine
Portland, ME  207-780-4152


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 

*************************************************************************************
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**************************************************************************************


_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
_______________________________________________
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From cmangiarelli at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 19:59:26 2009
From: cmangiarelli at gmail.com (Christopher Mangiarelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:59:26 -0400
Subject: Whither Novell
In-Reply-To: <49F835130200007200032833@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
References: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>
	<49F753D0.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
	<49F8048F02000072000327AF@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
	<49F844AB.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
	<49F835130200007200032833@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
Message-ID: <f47566ff0904291159t15f5fe53re19c90a5e8cd7e49@mail.gmail.com>

Who cares about profit when we reward our management (and investors) despite
corporate failure?  RRHS - Reverse Robin Hood Syndrome...

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Randy Grein <RGrein at tpchd.org> wrote:

> You're right, I misread. Eyes getting tired.
>
> Unfortunately I don't think many people who matter (read: decision makers)
> will get the message. It's interesting that management follows the least
> risk principal, which guarantees least profit - in a free market, anyway.
> The lemming behavior is a good example.
>
> Randy Grein
> Sr. Network Engineer
>

-- 
Christopher Mangiarelli
cmangiarelli at gmail.com

From cimetmc at myrealbox.com  Wed Apr 29 20:39:19 2009
From: cimetmc at myrealbox.com (Marcel Cox)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:39:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Whither Bill? The rest of the story
References: <167f4090904231441q46a37e78xc6190c523c4da17a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0ABC1020000750004BB76@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
	<167f4090904231458o46f8f75cja609379d06155bbc@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F17B4602000072000322BA@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
Message-ID: <gtaad7$b3j$1@ger.gmane.org>

Randy Grein wrote:

>I don't see that would be a problem. EOL is supposed to be what, 2012 - 3 
>years from now, and support will continue for well past that

Pay attention to the dates. General support ends in 2010, not in 2012. 
2012 is the deadline for extended support, an option where you have to pay 
a premium price to continue getting support. Of course, the free support 
options like this mailing list or the forums will remain for many years to 
come.
Note that the 2010 date is once again confirmed in the new upgrade 
promotion that Novell just launched. So with theis upgrade promotioon, at 
least from the licensing point of view, now might be a good moment to 
upgrade:

http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/migrate.html


From knoke at uwosh.edu  Wed Apr 29 21:02:03 2009
From: knoke at uwosh.edu (Andrew Knoke)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:02:03 -0500
Subject: Whither Novell
In-Reply-To: <f47566ff0904291159t15f5fe53re19c90a5e8cd7e49@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F6F7070200008D0001B261@uct5.uct.usm.maine.edu>
	<49F753D0.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
	<49F8048F02000072000327AF@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
	<49F844AB.42FE.0085.0@MAIL.HFS.MSU.EDU>
	<49F835130200007200032833@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
	<f47566ff0904291159t15f5fe53re19c90a5e8cd7e49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9bde7e1183dd.49f86beb@uwosh.edu>

I don't think it is so much the profits as about being the safe route.? I think trying to get CIOs to invest in the Novell Brand is really difficult.? Cost or how good the product is has little to do with it.? I think short of Novell facilitating having itself bought out by google, apple, MS, HP, (pick a flavor) or some other company that knows how to do marketing and breath some life back in to company they are going to continue to slowly lose ground. ? I have said it before and I'll say it again.? Novell blew a perfectly good opportunity to shed the damanged Novell Brand when they bought out SUSE.? Management would be saying hey lets take a look at this new SUSE Groupwise, SUSE Groupware, etc.? This company is a shaker and a mover and going places.? Instead it is Groan, are they still in business? we need to back a winner.? When I saw Oracle buy out Sun my first thought was damn, why couldn't they have bought Novell.? Would of given us something to take to management and say see Novell is still relevant.? 

Sorry if I sound like a pessimist.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Mangiarelli <cmangiarelli at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:59 pm
Subject: Re: Whither Novell
To: Novell LAN Interest Group <novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

> Who cares about profit when we reward our management (and 
> investors) despite
> corporate failure?? RRHS - Reverse Robin Hood Syndrome...
> 
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Randy Grein 
> <RGrein at tpchd.org> wrote:
> 
> > You're right, I misread. Eyes getting tired.
> >
> > Unfortunately I don't think many people who matter (read: 
> decision makers)
> > will get the message. It's interesting that management follows 
> the least
> > risk principal, which guarantees least profit - in a free 
> market, anyway.
> > The lemming behavior is a good example.
> >
> > Randy Grein
> > Sr. Network Engineer
> >
> 
> -- 
> Christopher Mangiarelli
> cmangiarelli at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

From MollardM at mbc.qld.edu.au  Thu Apr 30 03:07:01 2009
From: MollardM at mbc.qld.edu.au (Michael Mollard)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:07:01 +1000
Subject: ZFD7 Group Policy not applying?
Message-ID: <49F99464.E927.0018.0@mbc.qld.edu.au>

Hi all,
I have a strange issue.  Running the latest ZFD7, and XPSP3 desktops.
I have a user associated Group Policy that sets a desktop wallpaper.  When I log in, the desktops doesn't get changed.  But if I locally run a 'gpupdate /force', or 'gpedit.msc' (make a change, undo the change, and apply it) the wallpaper is applied instantly.

Has anyone seen this?  I'm knee deep in debug logs, and there are no obvious errors that I can see.

Thanks.

Michael Mollard
Network Administrator
Moreton Bay College
mollardm at mbc.qld.edu.au
http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au
Ph: (Direct) 07 3907 5712 / (Mob) 0417 631 801 
Fax: 07 3390 8919 ( http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au )


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure that material contained in this email is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for use of the material transmitted. This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity names above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone 07 3390 8555 and destroy the original message. The contents of this message are provided without responsibility in law for their accuracy or otherwise, and without assumption of a duty of care by the School.
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From petervl at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 13:07:09 2009
From: petervl at gmail.com (Peter Van Lone)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:07:09 -0500
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
Message-ID: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone here done one of these (or can you at least remember
anything about it)?

I've got a customer who is (or course) moving off of NW completely,
but this process will take another year or so. In the meantime, they
need a particular server to be upgraded to a supported version of the
OS. So -- is an in-place migration generally successful?

I've found a meager number of TIDs about it.

Can one "roll back" from a failed in-place upgrade? My sense of this
would be no -- that once core DS files are updated, you can't go back
to the old server. If they want this kind of assurance, then the only
process would be an across-the-wire migration using the server
consolidation and migration tool -- correct?

Any pointers, gotchas, confirmations that you can offer would be appreciated.

P




-------------------------------
"Curiosity is one of the most permanent and certain characteristics of
a vigorous intellect."

~Samuel Johnson


http://www.the-brights.net
http://xkcd.com/167

From joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk  Thu Apr 30 13:12:46 2009
From: joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Joe Doupnik)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:12:46 +0100
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://netlab1.usu.edu/pipermail/novell/attachments/20090430/bad2a335/attachment.bat>

From joea at j4computers.com  Thu Apr 30 14:01:07 2009
From: joea at j4computers.com (joea at j4computers.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:01:07 -0400
Subject: 2 node cluster
Message-ID: <49F968CE020000850005FBE4@FS-LIN-OES>

Somebody know cluster services?
 
In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority", nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill.
 
However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be determined.  Does the Master then always win?  From experience, it would seem so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently spontaneously.
 
Linux clusters.  OES 1.
 
joe a.


From petervl at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 14:29:29 2009
From: petervl at gmail.com (Peter Van Lone)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:29:29 -0500
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>
References: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

> ---------
> ? ? ?I am afraid the process is not reversable. The safety measure is to
> make a complete image of the original. Portlock Software can do that for
> quick safe restoration.
> ? ? ?A half-way solution to a failed upgrade is to perform a "down-server"
> upgrade, and I recommend printing the appropriate documentation.


hmmm .... I had believed that the ONLY option was a "down server"
upgrade ... can you elaborate just a bit before I run to the docs? The
only process I have ever done was to down the server and boot to the
new OS cd and choose upgrade. You suggest that it is possible to do an
upgrade while the server is up?

How would doing a "down server" upgrade provide any roll-back option?

> ? ? ?Finally, if possible move the eDir master to another node during the
> upgrade process, and doubly check that eDir and disk farm are in perfect
> condition. Allocate 1+++GB free space to hold the backup and update file.
> ? ? ?Joe D.

really -- 1GB and more for backup and update files? So you are
suggesting that the sys: volume must have that much free space? I'm
pretty sure this server does have that much -- but will double check.
Thnx for the notes!

P

From bbrush at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 14:42:03 2009
From: bbrush at gmail.com (Bill Brush)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:42:03 -0500
Subject: 2 node cluster
In-Reply-To: <49F968CE020000850005FBE4@FS-LIN-OES>
References: <49F968CE020000850005FBE4@FS-LIN-OES>
Message-ID: <167f4090904300642l5ccfc02fq6a0f462ea969abbe@mail.gmail.com>

I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back
to me correctly.

Bill

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com
<joea at j4computers.com> wrote:
> Somebody know cluster services?
>
> In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority", nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill.
>
> However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be determined. ?Does the Master then always win? ?From experience, it would seem so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently spontaneously.
>

From jcunningham at upei.ca  Thu Apr 30 14:46:17 2009
From: jcunningham at upei.ca (John Cunningham)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:46:17 -0300
Subject: 2 node cluster
In-Reply-To: <167f4090904300642l5ccfc02fq6a0f462ea969abbe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F968CE020000850005FBE4@FS-LIN-OES>
	<167f4090904300642l5ccfc02fq6a0f462ea969abbe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F9817B.EFF9.0093.0@groupwise.upei.ca>

Split brain condition? 
 
I keep referring back to TID 10053882 when it comes to this stuff.
 
http://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10053882.html 

>>> On 4/30/2009 at 10:42 AM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote:
I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back
to me correctly.

Bill

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com 
<joea at j4computers.com> wrote:
> Somebody know cluster services?
>
> In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority", nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill.
>
> However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be determined.  Does the Master then always win?  From experience, it would seem so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently spontaneously.
>

From Simon.Pollard at barnet.ac.uk  Thu Apr 30 14:50:02 2009
From: Simon.Pollard at barnet.ac.uk (Simon Pollard)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:50:02 +0100
Subject: ZFD7 Group Policy not applying?
In-Reply-To: <49F99464.E927.0018.0@mbc.qld.edu.au>
References: <49F99464.E927.0018.0@mbc.qld.edu.au>
Message-ID: <EDB47A2F10617E4095AE70CBBC723F61016601AD@oak.bc-ad.barnet.ac.uk>

Just a thought - the wallpaper's not on a mapped drive or some other
resource that isn't available immediately on login, is it?  Though, I'd
like to think that would've thrown a file not found error in some log
somewhere along the way.

-- 
  Simon Pollard
  IT Services, Barnet College

-----Original Message-----
From: novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
[mailto:novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael
Mollard
Sent: 30 April 2009 03:07
To: novellschools at lists.redlands.qld.edu.au; Novell LAN Interest Group
Subject: ZFD7 Group Policy not applying?

Hi all,
I have a strange issue.  Running the latest ZFD7, and XPSP3 desktops.
I have a user associated Group Policy that sets a desktop wallpaper.
When I log in, the desktops doesn't get changed.  But if I locally run a
'gpupdate /force', or 'gpedit.msc' (make a change, undo the change, and
apply it) the wallpaper is applied instantly.

Has anyone seen this?  I'm knee deep in debug logs, and there are no
obvious errors that I can see.

Thanks.

Michael Mollard
Network Administrator
Moreton Bay College
mollardm at mbc.qld.edu.au
http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au
Ph: (Direct) 07 3907 5712 / (Mob) 0417 631 801 
Fax: 07 3390 8919 ( http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From joea at j4computers.com  Thu Apr 30 15:20:54 2009
From: joea at j4computers.com (joea at j4computers.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:20:54 -0400
Subject: 2 node cluster
Message-ID: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>

Actually, it was reading that document that spurred my question.
 
The doc seems to be saying that, in a split brain condition, two masters will exist, hence the attempt to determine LAN connectivity.  But, if the comms issue was fleeting, and now comms are "good", what then?  We have two masters, good comms, who wins?  Does Cluster Services retain knowledge of who was the previous Master, and it wins?
 
The root of this is an infrequent (rare, actually) reboot of non master nodes.   OES1, Linux, 2 node cluster.
 
joe a.

>>> "John Cunningham" <jcunningham at upei.ca> 04/30/09 9:47 AM >>> 
Split brain condition? 

I keep referring back to TID 10053882 when it comes to this stuff. 

http://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10053882.html 

>>> On 4/30/2009 at 10:42 AM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote: 
I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back 
to me correctly. 

Bill 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com 
<joea at j4computers.com> wrote: 
> Somebody know cluster services? 
> 
> In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority", nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill. 
> 
> However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be determined. Does the Master then always win? From experience, it would seem so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently spontaneously. 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
Novell mailing list 
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell


From jbchristensen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 15:31:15 2009
From: jbchristensen at gmail.com (Jon Christensen)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:31:15 -0600
Subject: 2 node cluster
In-Reply-To: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>
References: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>
Message-ID: <3b08acaf0904300731o47ca0d4bm2d2b8db7311df91b@mail.gmail.com>

That's the problem with two node clusters. Under certain conditions (rare,
but possible) you can end up with a split brain condition, with both nodes
thinking they are the master & both writing to the shared storage. This will
result in data corruption. Many people will not make a cluster smaller than
three nodes because of this.

I've installed quite a few two node clusters & haven't seen problems, but
the possibility does exist. My caveat - I haven't done much with clustering
for the past two years, so things may have changed.
Jon

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:20 AM, joea at j4computers.com
<joea at j4computers.com>wrote:

> Actually, it was reading that document that spurred my question.
>
> The doc seems to be saying that, in a split brain condition, two masters
> will exist, hence the attempt to determine LAN connectivity.  But, if the
> comms issue was fleeting, and now comms are "good", what then?  We have two
> masters, good comms, who wins?  Does Cluster Services retain knowledge of
> who was the previous Master, and it wins?
>
> The root of this is an infrequent (rare, actually) reboot of non master
> nodes.   OES1, Linux, 2 node cluster.
>
> joe a.
>
> >>> "John Cunningham" <jcunningham at upei.ca> 04/30/09 9:47 AM >>>
> Split brain condition?
>
> I keep referring back to TID 10053882 when it comes to this stuff.
>
> http://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10053882.html
>
> >>> On 4/30/2009 at 10:42 AM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back
> to me correctly.
>
> Bill
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com
> <joea at j4computers.com> wrote:
> > Somebody know cluster services?
> >
> > In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when
> there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority",
> nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can
> be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill.
> >
> > However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be
> determined. Does the Master then always win? From experience, it would seem
> so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently
> spontaneously.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>



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Facebook Profile: http://profile.to/jbchristensen/
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jbchristensen

From RGrein at tpchd.org  Thu Apr 30 15:39:13 2009
From: RGrein at tpchd.org (Randy Grein)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:39:13 -0700
Subject: 2 node cluster
In-Reply-To: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>
References: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>
Message-ID: <49F955A102000072000329B2@health-mail2.tpchd.org>

I THINK (not know) that the outcome depends on the situation. We've had conditions where the switches were rebooted that caused BOTH nodes to crash; if only one node loses connectivity that one goes down.

I see that the TID in question references previous versions of cluster services (Netware to 6.0, cluster services 1.6). Handling split brain conditions with just 2 nodes was a real problem. In later versions they are supposed to also communicate through the admin portion on the shared pool - sorry I don't have any details, but that's what I was told at Brainshare last year. In any case, like I said we have experienced simultaneous node crashes when the servicing switch was reset or lost power. It would seem that both ate a poison pill to avoid the 'indeterminate master' problem. NW 6.5, cluster services 1.8.3.




Randy Grein
Sr. Network Engineer
>>> "joea at j4computers.com" <joea at j4computers.com> 4/30/2009 7:20 AM >>>
Actually, it was reading that document that spurred my question.
 
The doc seems to be saying that, in a split brain condition, two masters will exist, hence the attempt to determine LAN connectivity.  But, if the comms issue was fleeting, and now comms are "good", what then?  We have two masters, good comms, who wins?  Does Cluster Services retain knowledge of who was the previous Master, and it wins?
 
The root of this is an infrequent (rare, actually) reboot of non master nodes.   OES1, Linux, 2 node cluster.
 
joe a.

>>> "John Cunningham" <jcunningham at upei.ca> 04/30/09 9:47 AM >>> 
Split brain condition? 

I keep referring back to TID 10053882 when it comes to this stuff. 

http://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10053882.html 

>>> On 4/30/2009 at 10:42 AM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote: 
I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back 
to me correctly. 

Bill 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com 
<joea at j4computers.com> wrote: 
> Somebody know cluster services? 
> 
> In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority", nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill. 
> 
> However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be determined. Does the Master then always win? From experience, it would seem so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently spontaneously. 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
Novell mailing list 
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 

_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell

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From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Thu Apr 30 15:39:53 2009
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:39:53 -0400
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F97FF9020000750003152C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

A "down-server" upgrade only pertains to a server that, for what ever reason, is not functional and you want to retain the identity and functionality of the server.  It is used to basically recover from a failed upgrade, but I have used it to recover a badly pranged (highly technical term) server that would not come up.
This is definitely not a rollback option.
In my opinion, the only sure bet on a rollback is to build a new server and migrate the data.  That way you still have the original server to rollback to.
-jt
 

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
678-697-9420
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
http://www.eastcobbgroup.com




>>> Peter Van Lone <petervl at gmail.com> 4/30/2009 09:29 AM >>> 
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Joe Doupnik <joe.doupnik at oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

> ---------
>      I am afraid the process is not reversable. The safety measure is to
> make a complete image of the original. Portlock Software can do that for
> quick safe restoration.
>      A half-way solution to a failed upgrade is to perform a "down-server"
> upgrade, and I recommend printing the appropriate documentation.


hmmm .... I had believed that the ONLY option was a "down server"
upgrade ... can you elaborate just a bit before I run to the docs? The
only process I have ever done was to down the server and boot to the
new OS cd and choose upgrade. You suggest that it is possible to do an
upgrade while the server is up?

How would doing a "down server" upgrade provide any roll-back option?

>      Finally, if possible move the eDir master to another node during the
> upgrade process, and doubly check that eDir and disk farm are in perfect
> condition. Allocate 1+++GB free space to hold the backup and update file.
>      Joe D.

really -- 1GB and more for backup and update files? So you are
suggesting that the sys: volume must have that much free space? I'm
pretty sure this server does have that much -- but will double check.
Thnx for the notes!

P
_______________________________________________
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Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell



From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Thu Apr 30 15:43:09 2009
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:43:09 -0400
Subject: 2 node cluster
In-Reply-To: <3b08acaf0904300731o47ca0d4bm2d2b8db7311df91b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>
	<3b08acaf0904300731o47ca0d4bm2d2b8db7311df91b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F980BD0200007500031539@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

What he said.
There is remote possibility this could occur, but you are more likely to have problems related to applications bozo-ing than a problem with the cluster software itself.  At least if you have even remotely current versions of the cluster stuff.
-jt
 

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
678-697-9420
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
http://www.eastcobbgroup.com




>>> Jon Christensen <jbchristensen at gmail.com> 4/30/2009 10:31 AM >>> 
That's the problem with two node clusters. Under certain conditions (rare,
but possible) you can end up with a split brain condition, with both nodes
thinking they are the master & both writing to the shared storage. This will
result in data corruption. Many people will not make a cluster smaller than
three nodes because of this.

I've installed quite a few two node clusters & haven't seen problems, but
the possibility does exist. My caveat - I haven't done much with clustering
for the past two years, so things may have changed.
Jon

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:20 AM, joea at j4computers.com
<joea at j4computers.com>wrote:

> Actually, it was reading that document that spurred my question.
>
> The doc seems to be saying that, in a split brain condition, two masters
> will exist, hence the attempt to determine LAN connectivity.  But, if the
> comms issue was fleeting, and now comms are "good", what then?  We have two
> masters, good comms, who wins?  Does Cluster Services retain knowledge of
> who was the previous Master, and it wins?
>
> The root of this is an infrequent (rare, actually) reboot of non master
> nodes.   OES1, Linux, 2 node cluster.
>
> joe a.
>
> >>> "John Cunningham" <jcunningham at upei.ca> 04/30/09 9:47 AM >>>
> Split brain condition?
>
> I keep referring back to TID 10053882 when it comes to this stuff.
>
> http://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10053882.html
>
> >>> On 4/30/2009 at 10:42 AM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back
> to me correctly.
>
> Bill
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com
> <joea at j4computers.com> wrote:
> > Somebody know cluster services?
> >
> > In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when
> there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority",
> nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can
> be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill.
> >
> > However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be
> determined. Does the Master then always win? From experience, it would seem
> so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently
> spontaneously.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell
>



-- 
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LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jbchristensen
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Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jbchristensen
_______________________________________________
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From jcunningham at upei.ca  Thu Apr 30 15:58:07 2009
From: jcunningham at upei.ca (John Cunningham)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:58:07 -0300
Subject: 2 node cluster
In-Reply-To: <3b08acaf0904300731o47ca0d4bm2d2b8db7311df91b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>
	<3b08acaf0904300731o47ca0d4bm2d2b8db7311df91b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F99251.EFF9.0093.0@groupwise.upei.ca>

Hm. 
 
Would the non-master node, as determined by the SBD partition, not recognize that it is not a master, cannot get a heartbeat packet from the master and promptly commit Harakiri? I was under the impression that the SBD partition was the ultimate authority when it came to node voting.
 
Otherwise, I would think it'd be a bug in the SBD code. Not that THAT's ever happened... 
*cough*
http://www.novell.com/support/viewContent.do?externalId=3767762&sliceId=1 
*cough*
 
I agree though: 2 nodes, a cluster does not make.
 
~John
 

>>> On 4/30/2009 at 11:31 AM, Jon Christensen <jbchristensen at gmail.com> wrote:
That's the problem with two node clusters. Under certain conditions (rare,
but possible) you can end up with a split brain condition, with both nodes
thinking they are the master & both writing to the shared storage. This will
result in data corruption. Many people will not make a cluster smaller than
three nodes because of this.

I've installed quite a few two node clusters & haven't seen problems, but
the possibility does exist. My caveat - I haven't done much with clustering
for the past two years, so things may have changed.
Jon

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:20 AM, joea at j4computers.com 
<joea at j4computers.com>wrote:

> Actually, it was reading that document that spurred my question.
>
> The doc seems to be saying that, in a split brain condition, two masters
> will exist, hence the attempt to determine LAN connectivity.  But, if the
> comms issue was fleeting, and now comms are "good", what then?  We have two
> masters, good comms, who wins?  Does Cluster Services retain knowledge of
> who was the previous Master, and it wins?
>
> The root of this is an infrequent (rare, actually) reboot of non master
> nodes.   OES1, Linux, 2 node cluster.
>
> joe a.
>
> >>> "John Cunningham" <jcunningham at upei.ca> 04/30/09 9:47 AM >>>
> Split brain condition?
>
> I keep referring back to TID 10053882 when it comes to this stuff.
>
> http://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10053882.html 
>
> >>> On 4/30/2009 at 10:42 AM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back
> to me correctly.
>
> Bill
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com 
> <joea at j4computers.com> wrote:
> > Somebody know cluster services?
> >
> > In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when
> there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority",
> nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can
> be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill.
> >
> > However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be
> determined. Does the Master then always win? From experience, it would seem
> so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently
> spontaneously.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Novell mailing list
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
>



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LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jbchristensen 
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Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jbchristensen 
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From guy at crossflight.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 16:34:49 2009
From: guy at crossflight.co.uk (Guy Dawson)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:34:49 +0100
Subject: OT - I remember VAXClusters (was  re: 2 node cluster)
In-Reply-To: <49F955A102000072000329B2@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
References: <49F97B83020000850005FBF1@FS-LIN-OES>
	<49F955A102000072000329B2@health-mail2.tpchd.org>
Message-ID: <49F9C519.9000305@crossflight.co.uk>

Randy Grein wrote:
> I THINK (not know) that the outcome depends on the situation. We've had
 > conditions where the switches were rebooted that caused BOTH nodes to
 > crash; if only one node loses connectivity that one goes down.
> 
> I see that the TID in question references previous versions of cluster
 > services (Netware to 6.0, cluster services 1.6). Handling split brain
 > conditions with just 2 nodes was a real problem. In later versions they
 > are supposed to also communicate through the admin portion on the shared
 > pool - sorry I don't have any details, but that's what I was told at
 > Brainshare last year. In any case, like I said we have experienced
 > simultaneous node crashes when the servicing switch was reset or lost
 > power. It would seem that both ate a poison pill to avoid the
 > 'indeterminate master' problem. NW 6.5, cluster services 1.8.3.

When I installed my first VAXCluster in 1987 it was a two node cluster
and VMS required the use of a 'Quorum disk'. This was a specific,
shared disk that the two nodes would use to record the view of the
cluster. On the cluster all the disks including the quorum disk were
shared via a pair of HSC70 controllers.

The disk name was configured on each node and if the node could not
access the disk it would not act as part of the cluster. Two (or more)
nodes without network connectivity could still find out about the
cluster from the quorum disk. This avoided the split cluster/brain
problem.


Guy
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson                 I.T. Systems Manager         Crossflight Ltd
guy at crossflight.co.uk         07973  797819                01753 776104


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From joea at j4computers.com  Thu Apr 30 16:42:20 2009
From: joea at j4computers.com (joea at j4computers.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:42:20 -0400
Subject: 2 node cluster
Message-ID: <49F98E91020000850005FC01@FS-LIN-OES>

My understanding is (was) that there are several levels of decision making before biting down hard on the molar.
 
The TID refers to OES2, we're on OES1 and will be for a while.  Not to imply a similar bug cannot exist.    
 
Hmm, dawns on me there is a test node I can just go pull the plugs on, in deliberate fashion, and find out.  Eh, eh?  See, still working.    Hope I remember to write down the results.
 
joe a.

>>> "John Cunningham" <jcunningham at upei.ca> 04/30/09 11:01 AM >>> 
Hm. 

Would the non-master node, as determined by the SBD partition, not recognize that it is not a master, cannot get a heartbeat packet from the master and promptly commit Harakiri? I was under the impression that the SBD partition was the ultimate authority when it came to node voting. 

Otherwise, I would think it'd be a bug in the SBD code. Not that THAT's ever happened... 
*cough* 
http://www.novell.com/support/viewContent.do?externalId=3767762&sliceId=1 
*cough* 

I agree though: 2 nodes, a cluster does not make. 

~John 


>>> On 4/30/2009 at 11:31 AM, Jon Christensen <jbchristensen at gmail.com> wrote: 
That's the problem with two node clusters. Under certain conditions (rare, 
but possible) you can end up with a split brain condition, with both nodes 
thinking they are the master & both writing to the shared storage. This will 
result in data corruption. Many people will not make a cluster smaller than 
three nodes because of this. 

I've installed quite a few two node clusters & haven't seen problems, but 
the possibility does exist. My caveat - I haven't done much with clustering 
for the past two years, so things may have changed. 
Jon 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:20 AM, joea at j4computers.com 
<joea at j4computers.com>wrote: 

> Actually, it was reading that document that spurred my question. 
> 
> The doc seems to be saying that, in a split brain condition, two masters 
> will exist, hence the attempt to determine LAN connectivity. But, if the 
> comms issue was fleeting, and now comms are "good", what then? We have two 
> masters, good comms, who wins? Does Cluster Services retain knowledge of 
> who was the previous Master, and it wins? 
> 
> The root of this is an infrequent (rare, actually) reboot of non master 
> nodes. OES1, Linux, 2 node cluster. 
> 
> joe a. 
> 
> >>> "John Cunningham" <jcunningham at upei.ca> 04/30/09 9:47 AM >>> 
> Split brain condition? 
> 
> I keep referring back to TID 10053882 when it comes to this stuff. 
> 
> http://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10053882.html 
> 
> >>> On 4/30/2009 at 10:42 AM, Bill Brush <bbrush at gmail.com> wrote: 
> I think you have it right if my sessions at Brainshare are coming back 
> to me correctly. 
> 
> Bill 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:01 AM, joea at j4computers.com 
> <joea at j4computers.com> wrote: 
> > Somebody know cluster services? 
> > 
> > In a 2 node cluster, docs seem to say a special condition exists, (when 
> there is a loss of heartbeat) in that, since there cannot be a "majority", 
> nor can the Master node be assumed "good", then, if network connectivity can 
> be determined, the "bad" node eats a poison pill. 
> > 
> > However, docs do not state what happens when connectivity *cannot* be 
> determined. Does the Master then always win? From experience, it would seem 
> so, as we have had instances of the non master node rebooting, apparently 
> spontaneously. 
> > 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Novell mailing list 
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Novell mailing list 
> Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
> http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell 
> 



-- 
My blog: http://www.antioxidantalley.com/blog 
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_______________________________________________ 
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From petervl at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 16:58:55 2009
From: petervl at gmail.com (Peter Van Lone)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:58:55 -0500
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <49F97FF9020000750003152C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
References: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F97FF9020000750003152C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
Message-ID: <68b791330904300858vcc49563s331f8ce8b9f3fe8d@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:39 AM, James Taylor
<James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com> wrote:
> A "down-server" upgrade only pertains to a server that, for what ever reason, is not functional and you want to retain the identity and functionality of the server. ?It is used to basically recover from a failed upgrade, but I have used it to recover a badly pranged (highly >technical term) server that would not come up.

I'm pretty sure that the term simply refers to an upgrade performed by
booting the server hardware to the new OS cd (so by definition the
existing server is "down" when the upgrade occurs).

How does one initiate an upgrade when the server is still "up"?

> This is definitely not a rollback option.

yea, I am wondering what Joe meant by that, also

> In my opinion, the only sure bet on a rollback is to build a new server and migrate the data. ?That way you still have the original server to rollback to.

have you had any luck (or reason to use) the "roll back" option when
doing an across the wire migration/upgrade?

I have wondered, in a case where for whatever reason the newely
migrated to hardware has an issue, whether the "old" server once
turned back on would actually "just work" as it had before?

Peter

From cjf at calfrye.com  Thu Apr 30 19:11:35 2009
From: cjf at calfrye.com (Cal Frye)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:11:35 -0400
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <68b791330904300858vcc49563s331f8ce8b9f3fe8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>	<20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>	<68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>	<49F97FF9020000750003152C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
	<68b791330904300858vcc49563s331f8ce8b9f3fe8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F9E9D7.6050902@calfrye.com>

Peter Van Lone wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that the term ["down-server" upgrade] simply refers
> to an upgrade performed by booting the server hardware to the new OS
> cd (so by definition the existing server is "down" when the upgrade
> occurs).

Note this message from the OES Netware documentation, "Upgrades to OES
NetWare are performed on a running NetWare server. The down-server
upgrade method is no longer supported. See Section 3.7, Down-Server
Upgrades for more information."
> 
> How does one initiate an upgrade when the server is still "up"?

That would be an in-place migration, I believe, onto the same hardware.
Note this message from the documentation on OES2 SP1: Netware
Installation Guide, "In-place and remote server upgrades are no longer
supported in OES 2 SP1 NetWare. The update method described in this
section is the only supported method for upgrading a NetWare server to
NetWare 6.5 SP8."

http://www.novell.com/documentation/oes2/inst_oes_nw/index.html?page=/documentation/oes2/inst_oes_nw/data/front.html#front

Sounds like you're going to need new hardware, which is the safest
alternative anyway.

-- 
Celebrating the 150th anniversary of the publication of the Origin of
Species.
-- Cal Frye, Network Administrator, Oberlin College
   Mudd Library, x.56930 -- CIT will NEVER ask you for your password!

   www.calfrye.com,  www.pitalabs.com

"The people who still say that global warming isn't real are actually in
the same boat with the flat earth society. They get together and party
on Saturday nights with the folks that believe the moon landing was in a
movie lot in Arizona." -- Al Gore.

From petervl at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 20:27:34 2009
From: petervl at gmail.com (Peter Van Lone)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:27:34 -0500
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <49F9E9D7.6050902@calfrye.com>
References: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F97FF9020000750003152C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
	<68b791330904300858vcc49563s331f8ce8b9f3fe8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F9E9D7.6050902@calfrye.com>
Message-ID: <68b791330904301227k71f72e2ch8de8c3bd92c2c9e4@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Cal Frye <cjf at calfrye.com> wrote:
>
> Note this message from the OES Netware documentation, "Upgrades to OES
> NetWare are performed on a running NetWare server. The down-server
> upgrade method is no longer supported. See Section 3.7, Down-Server
> Upgrades for more information."
>>

well shit ... so I have to do an across the wire anyway? I was not
going to go to sp8, since I really do not want to go to edir 8.8 since
they do not have that in the environment ... I wonder if I use an
install disc with sp7 on it -- if the same is true? Dang -- they like
making things more complicated than it seems should be so ...

>> How does one initiate an upgrade when the server is still "up"?
>
> That would be an in-place migration, I believe, onto the same hardware.
> Note this message from the documentation on OES2 SP1: Netware
> Installation Guide, "In-place and remote server upgrades are no longer
> supported in OES 2 SP1 NetWare. The update method described in this
> section is the only supported method for upgrading a NetWare server to
> NetWare 6.5 SP8."
>
> http://www.novell.com/documentation/oes2/inst_oes_nw/index.html?page=/documentation/oes2/inst_oes_nw/data/front.html#front
>
> Sounds like you're going to need new hardware, which is the safest
> alternative anyway.

well ... okay ... sigh ...

Thnx!

From cal.frye at oberlin.edu  Thu Apr 30 21:31:30 2009
From: cal.frye at oberlin.edu (Cal Frye)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:31:30 -0400
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <68b791330904301227k71f72e2ch8de8c3bd92c2c9e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>	<20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>	<68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>	<49F97FF9020000750003152C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>	<68b791330904300858vcc49563s331f8ce8b9f3fe8d@mail.gmail.com>	<49F9E9D7.6050902@calfrye.com>
	<68b791330904301227k71f72e2ch8de8c3bd92c2c9e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49FA0AA2.4070704@oberlin.edu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Peter Van Lone wrote:
> well shit ... so I have to do an across the wire anyway? I was not
> going to go to sp8, since I really do not want to go to edir 8.8 since
> they do not have that in the environment ... I wonder if I use an
> install disc with sp7 on it -- if the same is true? Dang -- they like
> making things more complicated than it seems should be so ...

Yeah, it doesn't look pretty. The OES 1 documentation does describe an
in-place update, along with a boatload of warnings of stuff that needs
to be turned off before hand and fixed up after. Note this page:
http://www.novell.com/documentation/oes/install-nw/index.html?page=/documentation/oes/install-nw/data/hz8pck9v.html#hz8pck9v

Hope this helps; I'm scared of these things and would migrate instead of
update, myself, but if you're brave, it looks like you can do what you
want. You don't down the server, you "add" the OES package.

- --
Celebrating the 150th anniversary of the publication of the Origin of
Species.
- -- Cal Frye, Network Administrator, Oberlin College
   Mudd Library, x.56930 -- CIT will NEVER ask you for your password!

   www.calfrye.com,  www.pitalabs.com

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his
government." --Edward Abbey.
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=JlpH
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From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Thu Apr 30 21:44:33 2009
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:44:33 -0400
Subject: NW6.0 to NW6.5 in-place upgrade - "rollback" option?
In-Reply-To: <68b791330904301227k71f72e2ch8de8c3bd92c2c9e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68b791330904300507s1198ff5as8353fa4d8016ae84@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090430121246.2CCBB242F5@webmail218.herald.ox.ac.uk>
	<68b791330904300629p6e1e6cddkcb9daf767ac89bb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F97FF9020000750003152C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
	<68b791330904300858vcc49563s331f8ce8b9f3fe8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F9E9D7.6050902@calfrye.com>
	<68b791330904301227k71f72e2ch8de8c3bd92c2c9e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F9D571020000750004C47F@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

Keep in mind that a new install of NW6.5SP7 will install eDir 8.8, no options.
The only way to keep eDir 8.7.9 is to upgrade from a prior release.

The biggest issue with eDir 8.8 in an old environment would be if you have really old, or unpatched versions of ZEN or BorderManager.
Otherwise, 8.8 should not be a problem.

I haven't run into a site where it has been an issue after we did a complete configuration and prerequisites review.

-jt 
 

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
678-697-9420
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
http://www.eastcobbgroup.com




>>> Peter Van Lone <petervl at gmail.com> 4/30/2009 03:27 PM >>> 
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Cal Frye <cjf at calfrye.com> wrote:
>
> Note this message from the OES Netware documentation, "Upgrades to OES
> NetWare are performed on a running NetWare server. The down-server
> upgrade method is no longer supported. See Section 3.7, Down-Server
> Upgrades for more information."
>>

well shit ... so I have to do an across the wire anyway? I was not
going to go to sp8, since I really do not want to go to edir 8.8 since
they do not have that in the environment ... I wonder if I use an
install disc with sp7 on it -- if the same is true? Dang -- they like
making things more complicated than it seems should be so ...

>> How does one initiate an upgrade when the server is still "up"?
>
> That would be an in-place migration, I believe, onto the same hardware.
> Note this message from the documentation on OES2 SP1: Netware
> Installation Guide, "In-place and remote server upgrades are no longer
> supported in OES 2 SP1 NetWare. The update method described in this
> section is the only supported method for upgrading a NetWare server to
> NetWare 6.5 SP8."
>
> http://www.novell.com/documentation/oes2/inst_oes_nw/index.html?page=/documentation/oes2/inst_oes_nw/data/front.html#front
>
> Sounds like you're going to need new hardware, which is the safest
> alternative anyway.

well ... okay ... sigh ...

Thnx!
_______________________________________________
Novell mailing list
Novell at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk
http://netlab1.usu.edu/mailman/listinfo/novell



From craighewitt at massan.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 22:22:45 2009
From: craighewitt at massan.co.uk (Craig Hewitt)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:22:45 +0100
Subject: ZFD7 Group Policy not applying?
In-Reply-To: <EDB47A2F10617E4095AE70CBBC723F61016601AD@oak.bc-ad.barnet.ac.uk>
References: <49F99464.E927.0018.0@mbc.qld.edu.au>
	<EDB47A2F10617E4095AE70CBBC723F61016601AD@oak.bc-ad.barnet.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49FA16A5.4000001@massan.co.uk>

If it's on a mapped drive, make sure the permissions are correct and 
that it's a unc path. Obvious I know but sometimes that's how we miss 
these issues. I think we had a problem like this once, so we copied the 
file locally first.

Craig.

Simon Pollard wrote:
> Just a thought - the wallpaper's not on a mapped drive or some other
> resource that isn't available immediately on login, is it?  Though, I'd
> like to think that would've thrown a file not found error in some log
> somewhere along the way.
>
>   

From MollardM at mbc.qld.edu.au  Thu Apr 30 23:53:54 2009
From: MollardM at mbc.qld.edu.au (Michael Mollard)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 08:53:54 +1000
Subject: ZFD7 Group Policy not applying?
In-Reply-To: <EDB47A2F10617E4095AE70CBBC723F61016601AD@oak.bc-ad.barnet.ac.uk>
References: <49F99464.E927.0018.0@mbc.qld.edu.au>
	<EDB47A2F10617E4095AE70CBBC723F61016601AD@oak.bc-ad.barnet.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49FAB8A2.E927.0018.0@mbc.qld.edu.au>

The wallpaper is on a NW server, with rights for user, workstation, and Public.  I have thought about copying down to local, but then you get students able to edit the local wallpaper. I've had server based wallpaper working in the past.
Thanks for the reply.
Michael.



Michael Mollard
Network Administrator
Moreton Bay College
mollardm at mbc.qld.edu.au
http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au
Ph: (Direct) 07 3907 5712 / (Mob) 0417 631 801 
Fax: 07 3390 8919 ( http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au )


>>> "Simon Pollard" <Simon.Pollard at barnet.ac.uk> 30/04/2009 11:50 pm >>>
Just a thought - the wallpaper's not on a mapped drive or some other
resource that isn't available immediately on login, is it?  Though, I'd
like to think that would've thrown a file not found error in some log
somewhere along the way.

-- 
  Simon Pollard
  IT Services, Barnet College

-----Original Message-----
From: novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk 
[mailto:novell-bounces at netlab1.oucs.ox.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael
Mollard
Sent: 30 April 2009 03:07
To: novellschools at lists.redlands.qld.edu.au; Novell LAN Interest Group
Subject: ZFD7 Group Policy not applying?

Hi all,
I have a strange issue.  Running the latest ZFD7, and XPSP3 desktops.
I have a user associated Group Policy that sets a desktop wallpaper.
When I log in, the desktops doesn't get changed.  But if I locally run a
'gpupdate /force', or 'gpedit.msc' (make a change, undo the change, and
apply it) the wallpaper is applied instantly.

Has anyone seen this?  I'm knee deep in debug logs, and there are no
obvious errors that I can see.

Thanks.

Michael Mollard
Network Administrator
Moreton Bay College
mollardm at mbc.qld.edu.au 
http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au 
Ph: (Direct) 07 3907 5712 / (Mob) 0417 631 801 
Fax: 07 3390 8919 ( http://www.mbc.qld.edu.au )
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